Remember the neo-con slogans back in 2002-2003 ? "They hate us for our freedom !" "If we don't fight them over there, they will fight us over here" etc etc. I thought it was preposterous when applied to Iraq. Now that popular support is failing, I would like to remind people what the previous administration said about Iraq and just replace it in the context of Afghanistan.
They talked about a fight between good and evil : Afghanistan is that fight. They talked about atrocities committed to the people by their government : Afghanistan is where it happens. They talked about blind and ethnic violence : Afghanistan is the perfect example for it.
I read this story a few days ago.
"On Monday, an Afgh
an man told reporters that Taliban militants cut off his nose and both ears as he headed for a polling station in central Afghanistan. "I was on my way to a polling station when Taliban stopped me and searched me. They found my voter registration card," Lal Mohammad said from a hospital bed in Kabul. He said after cutting him, they beat him unconscious with a weapon. "I regret that I went to vote," Mohammad said, crying and trying to hide his disfigured face. "What is the benefit of voting to me?"
And I just finished The Swallows of Kabul, by Yasmina Khadra. A short journey into the nightmare of the Taliban regime, where communication between men and women is reduced to a minimum when it's not non-existent, where women are imprisoned and considered less than animals, where children are left by themselves in the street and learn violence by throwing rocks to marginalized homeless people, where public executions and stoning are "offered" to the passers-by as a recreation etc etc.
http://www.curledup.com/swallows.htm
These people really hate us for our freedom. Our way of life. Our liberty of expression and opinion. We shouldn't leave. We shouldn't let them win.
PS : For those interested by Yasmina Khadra, he's a wonderful Algerian writer who's written a trilogy about the confrontation between the West and Islam. Besides The Swallows of Kabul, you also have The Attack (about the israeli-palestinian conflict) and The Sirens of Baghdad. They are short and amazing books. If you have the opportunity, read them !
Vila
This is not exactly an article. I just wanted to follow up on what Haus said.
1what did I say?!?!
2Ok, the article you posted. Same thing...
(about Afghanistan and Bush and Obama)
3oh ok!
i was flattered that something i said stuck with you!
(btw, i just used one of my fancy mustards that i got at Le Grande Epicerie and thought of you!)
4@ ahah, thanks. It's an honor to be associated with fancy mustard.
5thanks for posting this Tulipe. I'm going to be in your part of the world in 2 weeks
6I seriously doubt that anybody could round up enough people who simply "hates us for our freedoms" that we would need to go to war with them. There is obviously some other motivation (never-ending overseas interference, for example) that is causing so many people to dedicate their lives to destroying ours. Saying it is just a fight between good and evil is oversimplifying the matter and doing everybody a severe disservice.
As much as I am against everything the Taliban stands for, I do not know that it is the place of foreign armies to stop them. Certainly I do not believe the United States should escalate our war there.
7I agree with Mich on this. It is a gross over simplification to say "they hate us for our freedoms".
8How about we go get them because they have gone on line saying "I want to kill every American"? When is the right time to go back to waiting for the next attack, like we did in the 90's?
9UnDave, I don't think they only want to kill Americans...
What I meant to say is : IF we're gonna fight a war because some people over there are determined to impose their obsolete views on people (women in particular) and fight the liberty that democracies allow (to a certain extent) aka the "they hate us for our freedoms" from back then (
), the Afghan war is the one. Let's try and find a way not to leave the people in the hands of the Taliban again.
As for "oversimplification", I agree. But it was more for comic effect than to go into the depths of geopolitics in Afghanistan and Pakistan. I could do that, but I would bore you to death...
@ Myst : where exactly in my world ?! My world MY world (Paris) ? Or you'll just cross the Atlantic but stop at our beloved enemies' (the Brits) ?
10Tulipe I'll be in Toulouse for about a week.
11"I could do that, but I would bore you to death..."
So now you're trying to kill us as well? Is there no end to the
American suffering!?!?
12Myst : If you stop by Paris, just tell me !
UnDave : Damn ! I thought I was being discreet and just when you didn't expect it anymore, I would have gone on and on about the geopolitics of dams in South America or the influence of the Baltic region in the European enlargement process... and bam ! You would have died ! I think it's time to bring back the freedom fries...
13I have a sis-in-law who STILL calls them freedom fries. I like to order FRENCH fries every time I'm with my wife's side of the family, because someone will always tell her what I said, just to see her get angry. It's almost entertaining.
14I just think the Freedom fry thing is funny! So I say it to be silly.
15@ UnDave : you should tell them that you talk with a real French person. That will certainly push her over the edge...
@ Haus : that was exactly what French people thought in 2003. "It's so silly. Do they think they'll hurt us by changing the name of the fries ? Do they know french fries are actually belgian ?"
16I don't know if anybody really took the whole "freedom fries" thin seriously. Well, I guess there probably are some, I just don't know them.
I guess Dave's SIL would be one...
17I will check out Yasmina Khadra, Tulipe, thanks!
18Don't forget Freedom Toast!
19Freedom's Mustard
20Freedom Dressing?
21and freedom kiss... and freedom bulldog. Let's not forget the freedom maid... with, of course, the freedom manicure !
22Awwwwww I love Frenchies with their smooshy faces and big ol bat ears!!!
Aaaaaaaand now my heart just exploded.
23And when you are rude, you'll say : "Pardon my freedom"...
24Seriously, how could you not love this face?
25bluesarahlou : if you paint him blue white and red, he'll be a Freedom Bulldog (although blue/white/red are also the French colors. Ok, forget it. Paint a bald eagle on him, we only have the rooster for emblem...
)
26oh, he is so cute! I just want to smoosh his cute little face!!!
27what a cute puppy blue and this conversation is hilarious
28Um, back to the original subject...
I find these types of situations sad. It's a shame that there are people in the world that cannot simply go to the grocery store without feeling fear. And to feel even more fear and have actual violence come upon you when you only want to vote, is sad and ashame.
29Do we have any pictures of the "freedom maid"?
30It was annoying in the Navy when my commanding officer insisted on calling me Petty Officer Freedom. UGH.
That was the stupidest thing ever.
31I didn't even think of that Harmony! Argh how annoying!!
32The thing with the Taliban is they hate a lot of things and a lot of people - so the whole "they hate us for our freedom" just doesn't pin down anything to me.
Yes they hate freedom, they also hate Shia Muslims (more then Americans even), they also hate other Middle Eastern countries for one reason or another (too "westernized"; regional conflict; not enough political support) - I mean those people are just a whole lot of hate.
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