It's 2009 but go to some places you might think it's still 1899.
There are still segregated high school proms in the US South to this day, with white students and black students attending different formal balls. I thought segregation in school was outlawed 55 years ago with Brown vs. Board of Education, but apparently some people think that law doesn’t apply to their community. Parents have organized a separate “white prom” in Montgomery County, Georgia at which black students aren’t welcome. They’re held outside of school and since the school isn’t involved it technically may not violate anti-segregation laws. These type of segregated proms are also known to be held in Mississippi, with the issue to be covered in an upcoming HBO special featuring Morgan Freeman to air in July:
Racially segregated proms have been held in Montgomery County — where about two-thirds of the population is white — almost every year since its schools were integrated in 1971. Such proms are, by many accounts, longstanding traditions in towns across the rural South, though in recent years a number of communities have successfully pushed for change. When the actor Morgan Freeman offered to pay for last year’s first-of-its-kind integrated prom at Charleston High School in Mississippi, his home state, the idea was quickly embraced by students — and rejected by a group of white parents, who held a competing “private” prom. (The effort is the subject of a documentary, “Prom Night in Mississippi,” which will be shown on HBO in July.) The senior proms held by Montgomery County High School students — referred to by many students as “the black-folks prom” and “the white-folks prom” — are organized outside school through student committees with the help of parents. All students are welcome at the black prom, though generally few if any white students show up. The white prom, students say, remains governed by a largely unspoken set of rules about who may come. Black members of the student council say they have asked school administrators about holding a single school-sponsored prom, but that, along with efforts to collaborate with white prom planners, has failed.
The article itself is pretty long. To read the whole thing, go here: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/24/magazine/24prom-t.html?_r=1&em
Nine West
Marc O'Polo
Vanessa Bruno
Sorry you didn't know about this. This happens all over the US.
1I'm curious as to why the school sponsored prom is called the (black) prom when it's just the regular prom and I'm sure there are some white student who still go to it.
This is a sad state of affairs but all we can hope is that their children will grow out of it with each succeeding generation.
I'm also glad to see that Morgan Freeman is acting as an ambassador to find out what the local racial issues really are.
2The "black" prom means poor people. The whites hold cotillion balls for their children's social economic standing and better friends in general. There is a lot of hateful traditions in the South that are class/race/gender based that will never change.
3"Parents have organized a separate “white prom” in Montgomery County, Georgia at which black students aren’t welcome. They’re held outside of school and since the school isn’t involved it technically may not violate anti-segregation laws. "
Disgusting, but not illegal. I invite and refuse to invite people to my parties, as is my right. If these people want to have a party, would anyone of color really want to attend?
4These people are holding private parties to avoid associating with their children's classmates - there's a difference between holding a party for friends and associates and holding a party to demonstrate your feeling that some people are beneath you. Not illegal, but definitely repugnant.
5I'm not surprised. When I lived in the South I was constantly amazed at the amount of voluntary segregation.
6How horrible. A person's race does not make them better or less than anyone else. I know that discrimination is still happening however I truly wish this issue would disappear already. There is absolutely no reason for it. All it does is teach the next generation to be bigots. Hopefully the students can one day overcome these "values" their parents had passed on; leading to the realization that the world would be a brighter place when races unite.
7No one is shocked at this? I hope not. This is ordinary occurrence for some people and it's their tradition.
Happiness is not,except in very rare cases,that drops into the mouth like a ripe fruit.Happiness must be,for most men and women,an achievement rather than a gift of the gods,and in this achievement,effort,both inward and outward,must play a great part.
8I do wonder if the parents are calling it the "white prom" or if the journalist is calling it that.
9I think it's a journalism thing, haus.
The schools themselves can't throw a segregated prom... these segregated prom are private parties. This doesn't surprise me in the least. I've grown up in the South. Like TS said, there is a lot of voluntary segregation still here.
10Well I don't see anything wrong with the parents throwing a party and inviting who they want. If they bill it as the "white prom" then yeah, that's a problem. Though, still within their rights.
11I agree that it isn't illegal, but it's still disgusting.
I too was aware that these kinds of "proms" existed.
12I'm curious. If I have a party, and I invite all my friends (all of whom are white, and share the same general philosophies that I do), is that disgusting? Do I need to open my party up to whomever wants to come, because I'm not being inclusive? Isn't that the whole point of a party, to celebrate with the people you want?
13Dave, I'm not sure that comparison is quite apples to apples. I know these are separate, private, parties, but in general a Prom is a schoolwide event.
14But this isn't necessarily a school Prom. It's being called that be the reporter, but that doesn't make it necessarily true. It wasn't organized by the school, or sanctioned by the school. Invites were sent to specific people, but not through the school. This isn't a Prom, it's a private party. Nothing more.
15I just mean that the kind of party you throw in your house is fundamentally a different animal than the kind of organized party (private or not) for students in high school where you put on formal wear at the end of the year, regardless of whether you call it a prom or not.
16I'm so glad to read that the students were all for an integrated prom, seems some of the parents could learn from their children. It's amazing how some people hold onto beliefs simply because of their roots and what they've been taught. Do they not realize that we learn things every day? That some of the things we were taught years ago have changed and might even be *gasp* wrong? I wish people would open their minds just a little bit.
I also find it odd (only because I've never experienced this), that the school district doesn't hold or sponosor the proms itself. Apparently this is a normal thing for this district... "The senior proms held by Montgomery County High School students — referred to by many students as “the black-folks prom” and “the white-folks prom” — are organized outside school through student committees with the help of parents."
17I don't know if this is what TS and sarah meant, but, in my experience, the segregation is voluntary on both sides. (I guess I shouldn't say in my experience, as I didn't grow up in the South, but rather I should say from what I've heard.)
Additionally, a cotillion is completely different from a prom. I had both in high school. And, out of 30 girls who were presented at my cotillion, two were black. And, this was in a town where the overall population is only 0.88% black.
18Gkitty, no I didn't know this was happening. I just find it hard to believe that it was happening and is being allowed by the district, but then again to be honest, I'm not really familiar with most things in America despite being an American and to be honest I've only been living in the U.S for the past 9 years, so I am out of touch with a lot of things and how things go in small towns in the south.
But Dave, there is a huge different between having a small private function in your house and having a function that's basically a prom for students to attend and basically telling people they can't come because of the race and forbidding your children from attending the so called "black" on too. That's racism pure and simple.
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19Life is short. Enjoy it while you can.
SO, if my party is 150 people, or 300 people, or 1500 people, and I rent a large convention center to hold it, is it still considered a small private party for my friends, or do I now have to invite a bunch of people that I might not necessarily like, but because I need to be inclusive?
20Dave, I'm not sure the defining feature here is size. If you are throwing a function related to where you work or where you go to school, then that's different than just having a party for your friends.
21Myst - racism isn't something that is dead in the South, which is a very unfortunate fact. (Just like the fact there are still Klan meetings in the South, but that's a story for another day.) There was a lot of hurt when things were desegregated in the South. Especially in smaller towns. A lot of the people (black and white) who grew up during that time still carry grudges.
I have a friend who is white and married a black guy. You won't believe the crap they've heard and taken (some of it from their own families). I have no doubt in my mind that my own family would disown me if I brough a black guy home. At my high school senior prom, whites, blacks, Hispanics, whomever was invited... yet we all naturally gravitated to our own race. It's just the way it works in small town South still. Sad, but true.
The good news, it seems to lessen with each generation. Maybe someday it won't exist anymore and we can all live in harmony. I'm just not holding my breath for it to be in the next 20 years here in the South.
22Dave there's a difference if you're throwing a party for your friends and deliberately throwing one because you don't want your kids to socialize with others because of their race and having your kids not being allowed to bring a Black, Asian, Hispanic, etc... person to the same party because of their race.
You can try to work it out however you want to but in this instance it's racism and if you can't see that then I'm sorry for you.
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Life is short. Enjoy it while you can.
I think these parents who are having this party need to stop calling it a prom. Proms are not by invitation. Tickets are sold, any graduating member of the class can buy a ticket to the prom. If these parents want to have these private parties then by all means have them, but don't call it a prom unless you're going to sell tickets and allow any of the students to buy one.
24Star, it isn't dead in the north either. My first ever true experience of racism I have to say was when my Italian-Irish boyfriend who I met in Boston while in college brought me home to meet his parents in New York, and I was called a n****r-gook to my face by his father and his sister in the same sentence said she didn't want to kung pow talking monkeys in their family. Needless to say that relationship didn't last. I'm glad that he didn't share their viewpoints because he's now married to a Liberian woman. And I think sad that you can't bring home someone you love just because of the color of their skin, Star. It's just not right. I may be a bit of an oddball but I wasn't raised to see people's skin and race, I mean how can I? I'm a mutt and a proud one at that and as much as I wish that the subject of race could end, I know it never will.
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25Life is short. Enjoy it while you can.
It's not right Myst, but it is a sad fact of life. I'm sorry you had that experience. At least you came through it with your head held high.
26Dave, throwing a party and inviting who you want is not "disgusting", but having an alternative "prom" and inviting people of a certain race and excluding others based on their race is disgusting.
27"I'm curious. If I have a party, and I invite all my friends (all of whom are white, and share the same general philosophies that I do), is that disgusting? Do I need to open my party up to whomever wants to come,"
UnDave are kidding with this question? Look if all of your friends happen to be white by coincidence and by no manipulation of your own no you're not a racist. However if you've made it a point to befriend only white friends and rebuff any attempts at friendship by people of color than yes you are a racist.
28Since there is exactely one person of color in my neighborhood of roughly 800, and he's a kid in foster care (and a friend of my kids BTW), and there are roughly 2 people that would be considered something other than Scandanavian, it's not too big a stretch. This area is extremely white.
29UD, the area where the article is based is not. It says it is 2/3 white 1/3 black. I recommend you read the full article to understand why their might be outrage over this.
30I found this part the most telling:
Students of both races say that interracial friendships are common at Montgomery County High School. Black and white students also date one another, though often out of sight of judgmental parents. “Most of the students do want to have a prom together,” says Terra Fountain, a white 18-year-old who graduated from Montgomery County High School last year and is now living with her black boyfriend. “But it’s the white parents who say no. … They’re like, if you’re going with the black people, I’m not going to pay for it.”
“It’s awkward,” acknowledges JonPaul Edge, a senior who is white. “I have as many black friends as I do white friends. We do everything else together. We hang out. We play sports together. We go to class together. I don’t think anybody at our school is racist.” Trying to explain the continued existence of segregated proms, Edge falls back on the same reasoning offered by a number of white students and their parents. “It’s how it’s always been,” he says. “It’s just a tradition.”
31Well there you go you're lost in white'dm...lol
32It's changing soon. I'm moving back to Indiana, and the community I'm moving to will have a better blend. It's a community that's been hit hard by the auto mess, though, so this will be interesting.
33Ah so you're going to shore up the white people in Indiana
34
35Oh snap!
36I have heard of this before and it is sad. The fact the many of these schools decide to not have a school sponsored prom because many of the administrators silently agree with the tradition is sad. They can sit in class together, play sports together but can't dance at prom together. The blacks (for the most part) have no problem mixing but some white parents have a problem letting go of a tradition that was breed in hate. I am the first to admit that some blacks still play the race card and hold onto grudges but this is often not the case at the proms
I have heard this from people in the south fresh out of high school in the military. And they called it the white prom.
37I was just kidding.
38My parents wouldn't have a problem if i brought home some one of a different race and introduced them as my lover. My parents probably wouldn't be upset if I brought home a woman. If I brought home a Yankee fan though....
I don't think the private party thing is the telling part of this story. I think the most interesting part is that the white students shun the school sponsored prom. That is the most telling part of all.
39Kas, what about a Cubs' or White Sox's fan?
Happiness is not,except in very rare cases,that drops into the mouth like a ripe fruit.Happiness must be,for most men and women,an achievement rather than a gift of the gods,and in this achievement,effort,both inward and outward,must play a great part.
40Cubs or White Sox would be okay. But you know us Red Sox people are insane so there would definitely be some hostility towards a Yankee and possibly a Devil's Ray fan, too.
41I understand, that can be the life or death of relationships. You have to know who you are getting, it could get ugly at family events.
Happiness is not,except in very rare cases,that drops into the mouth like a ripe fruit.Happiness must be,for most men and women,an achievement rather than a gift of the gods,and in this achievement,effort,both inward and outward,must play a great part.
42Could you imagine all the tension during the play offs? It would not be pretty.
43Bananas just bananas.
Happiness is not,except in very rare cases,that drops into the mouth like a ripe fruit.Happiness must be,for most men and women,an achievement rather than a gift of the gods,and in this achievement,effort,both inward and outward,must play a great part.
44One of the lamest things about this story has to be people turning down the chance to possibly party with Morgan friggin' Freeman. (Or, at least party on his dime). COME ON. He was in The Shawshank Redemption for God's sake.
45Also, is it that hard to figure out what the "unspoken rules" at the "white" prom are? Or am I reading too much into this?
46I wonder if they play songs by black artists at a (white) prom?
47They probably listen to Johnny Mathis, but y'know they crank it.
48I heard about this before. No offense, but any prom held by a multi-millionaire has got to be better than one organized by the locals. I'd be at that integrated prom.
49I have heard of this, and I understand why.
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