To me this is proof he was a terrorist
The Army psychiatrist believed to have killed 13 people at Fort Hood warned a roomful of senior Army physicians a year and a half ago that to avoid "adverse events," the military should allow Muslim soldiers to be released as conscientious objectors instead of fighting in wars against other Muslims.
As a senior-year psychiatric resident at Walter Reed Army Medical Center, Maj. Nidal M. Hasan was supposed to make a presentation on a medical topic of his choosing as a culminating exercise of the residency program.
Instead, in late June 2007, he stood before his supervisors and about 25 other mental health staff members and lectured on Islam, suicide bombers and threats the military could encounter from Muslims conflicted about fighting in the Muslim countries of Iraq and Afghanistan, according to a copy of the presentation obtained by The Washington Post.
"It's getting harder and harder for Muslims in the service to morally justify being in a military that seems constantly engaged against fellow Muslims," he said in the presentation.
"It was really strange," said one staff member who attended the presentation and spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the investigation of Hasan. "The senior doctors looked really upset" at the end. These medical presentations occurred each Wednesday afternoon, and other students had lectured on new medications and treatment of specific mental illnesses.
An Army spokesman said Monday night he was unaware of the presentation, and a Walter Reed spokesman declined to comment. It is unclear whether anyone in attendance reported the briefing to counterintelligence or law enforcement authorities whose job it is to identify threats from within the military ranks.
Hasan spent six years at Walter Reed as an intern, resident and fellow beginning in 2003. He was transferred to Fort Hood as a practicing psychiatrist in July and was set to leave soon for Afghanistan. According to a relative, he had asked not to be deployed. It is not known whether he ever sought conscientious-objector status.
Maj. Gen. Gina S. Farrisee, the Army's personnel chief, said in an interview Monday that because of the investigation, she and other Army officials could not discuss whether Hasan had officially asked to quit the service or not to be deployed. However, she and another Army official said it would be highly unusual for officers with Hasan's rank and medical training to be allowed to resign, given their service obligation.
Investigators are examining Hasan's religious beliefs, whether he harbored extremist views, and whether he was in contact with others who may have encouraged violence against U.S. troops.
The title of Hasan's PowerPoint presentation was "The Koranic World View As It Relates to Muslims in the U.S. Military." It consisted of 50 slides. In one slide, Hasan described the presentation's objectives as identifying "what the Koran inculcates in the minds of Muslims and the potential implications this may have for the U.S. military."
He also sought to "describe the nature of the religious conflicts that Muslims" who serve in the U.S. military may have and to persuade the Army to identify these individuals.
Other slides delved into the history of Islam, its tenets, statistics about the number of Muslims in the military, and explanations of "offensive jihad," or holy war.
Another slide suggested ways to draw out Muslim troops: "It must be hard for you to balance Islamic beliefs that might be conflicting with current war; feelings of guilt; Is it what you expected."
Hasan's presentation lasted about an hour. It is unclear whether he read out loud every point on each slide. If typical procedures were followed, his adviser would have supervised the development of his project, said people familiar with the practice.
The final three slides indicate that Hasan referred to Osama bin Laden, the Taliban, suicide bombers and Iran.
Under a slide titled "Comments," he wrote: "If Muslim groups can convince Muslims that they are fighting for God against injustices of the 'infidels'; ie: enemies of Islam, then Muslims can become a potent adversary ie: suicide bombing, etc." [sic]
The last bullet point on that page reads simply: "We love death more then [sic] you love life!"
Under the "Conclusions" page, Hasan wrote that "Fighting to establish an Islamic State to please God, even by force, is condoned by the Islam," and that "Muslim Soldiers should not serve in any capacity that renders them at risk to hurting/killing believers unjustly -- will vary!"
The final page, labeled "Recommendation," contained only one suggestion:
"Department of Defense should allow Muslims [sic] Soldiers the option of being released as 'Conscientious objectors' to increase troop morale and decrease adverse events."
Staff writer Ann Scott Tyson contributed to this report.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/11/09/AR200911...
Anna Sui
"to avoid 'adverse events,' the military should allow Muslim soldiers to be released as conscientious objectors instead of fighting in wars against other Muslims."
Terrorist, or a citizen warning that the military is overlooking a growing problem? That slide show sounded like a very clear call for the military to pay attention.
Try switching Muslim concerns in the story to anti-abortion, then tell me if he's so clearly a terrorist.
1All military service is voluntary. Muslims are not required to join the military.
2Hainin...can you please elaborate on how this is proof?
He was a psychiatrist, to me this is just a presentation within his field on something he has personal knowledge about.
3Because, he warned the military, they didnt take his advice, so he gives himself as a martyr to prove his cause. He wanted to terrorize the people of the military so their opinion would switch to allowing them out instead of facing another ft hood attack, it's plain as day.....
4Now Steph, i would switch it to abortion... that's fine. I have NO PROBLEM with his speech itself, just his actions after the speech establish a pattern. If I gave a speech about how the US should stop abortions because people may get angry etc, then i go bomb and abortion clinic, then the two go hand in hand. I think it is VERY CLEAR to see this wasn't just some dude that went crazy. It was very calculated response to the military's lack of response.
Hmm so he gets training for years with the Army to become a doctor, then decides as a Muslin he should not go to war?
5Hey buddy, then DO NOT join the army!
I never said that his cause was to kill the western world for Allah, but a terrorist is someone who using fearing people into changing their ways, it's pretty obvious that was his intent.
6So is he a terrorist with a clear political agenda, or a citizen who tried to warn his superiors of a growing problem and ended up becoming frustrated and enraged?
The difference between the two can have significant impact on our response as a society - it doesn't change whether Hasan's criminally responsible for what he did.
7I'm not sure everyone who joins the military out of high school is able to anticipate every potential scenario and their personal responses Laurel.
8If you made a warnign to your wife to straighten up or else.... but then 2 years later you murder her... Is it just a husband who became frustrated and enraged or would a jury not say that was INTENT!!!!
9comment # 8 he joined at the age of 27
10Intent to murder, not to be a terrorist with a clear political agenda.
11"the military should allow Muslim soldiers to be released as conscientious objectors instead of fighting in wars against other Muslims"
This to me is saying that all Muslims are on the side of extremists that we are fighting. I'm actually pretty pissed about that. I'm sure there are PLENTY of good honest Muslims who are just as pissed, if not more so, at the radicals and who would love to fight against them to stop that kind of behavior.
Am I the only one who interpretted that this way?
12He did not join Army out of HS.
If he objected after 9/11, he should have made steps to get out. Unfortunately, you cannot just get trained to be a doctor in the Army and not return the service. He should have done it in the civilian world and owe thousands of dollars to a college.
He wanted Muslims in the military to be able to not serve in war. Looks like he is the one bringing attention to religion.
13There are plenty of Muslims that proudly serve in the US Army, stephley, why do you take this one person (who is clearly unstable by his actions) as a call to attention that it is a growing problem in military?
HE had a problem with being Muslim and going to war, HE answered that problem by killing 13 soldiers. Do not take his claims as to be a reality of Muslims that serve our country.
I've seen several different articles describing his military career beginning after high school - including a Fox News interview with his cousin.
"He wanted Muslims in the military to be able to not serve in war."
Um no. He wanted Muslims in the military to be able to become conscience objectors in wars that they perceive to be against their faith. That's different.
"why do you take this one person (who is clearly unstable by his actions) as a call to attention that it is a growing problem in military?"
14Did you read the article??
It's about a presentation Hasan made to his superiors on what the Koran says to some Muslims and the potential implications for the U.S. military. THAT's why I take him as someone who tried to call attention to a problem.
So he used the Koran to prove a point he wanted to make?
15We know by history, by events that you can use any religious text and skew it to your own views.
The presentation was a topic of HIS choosing, he was not assigned to it.
These medical presentations occurred each Wednesday afternoon, and other students had lectured on new medications and treatment of specific mental illnesses.
I know the presentations were regular events - the article also says Hasan's adviser would have supersized preparation of this presentation.
Hasan chose to make his superiors aware that for some Muslims, U.S. wars in the Middle East pit faith against country.
16It's not as if he was presenting his interpretation of the Koran. according to this article he said: "If Muslim groups can convince Muslims that they are fighting for God against injustices of the 'infidels'; ie: enemies of Islam, then Muslims can become a potent adversary ie: suicide bombing, etc."
I don't care why it happened or what the motive behind it was. It's a horrible tragedy.
17Hasan chose to make his superiors aware that for some Muslims, U.S. wars in the Middle East pit faith against country.
"Some Muslims" there is no proof other than Hasan's presentation.
We should not use a mass murderer's extreme point of view as validation of a growing problem.
It was indeed a problem for him and I think they missed the boat on preventing a horrible tragedy, although I am sure no one could predict this magnitude of a tragedy.
However, many Muslims serve in the military, proudly so, and an extremists' point of view should not be used to represent them.
18We should look into whether there is a growing problem, not wait for more explosions of violence.
19So you advocate for him being a conscientous objector to the war of his choosing, but are AGAINST letting a christian doctor be a conscientous objector to performing an abortion???
20Your view is exactly what he wanted, when he didnt get that response, he proved to the military what would happen. I am pretty sure the Koran doesn't advocate murdering anyone because you were angry or disgruntled. So he was against killing another muslim, but OK with randomly shooting 13 people. That logic doesnt make sense! And it is also OK for us to allow racism in our own military, it's OK to kills white asains etc... just not those of his own race? He IS a terrorist. He shot those people to prove his point. Let us out or this is what will happen.
21He was born in Virginia, and grew up with two brothers in Roanoke. Attending college at Virginia Tech in Blacksburg, Va., Hasan majored in biochemistry.
Hasan joined the military in 1997 at the age of 27. The Army sent him to the Uniformed Services University of Health Science to study medicine.
He graduated in 2001 and completed his psychiatric residency in June at Walter Reed Army Medical Center, in Washington, D.C. He had served as a psychiatry intern, resident and fellow at Walter Reed from 2003 until 2009.
22Hainan, I've expressed no position on Hasan's conscientious objector idea.
A Christian doctor can be a conscientious objector to abortions, by simply staying out of the procedure area and I have no objection to that.
23"Your view is exactly what he wanted, when he didnt get that response, he proved to the military what would happen."
24I quoted him, I expressed no view.
"We should look into whether there is a growing problem, not wait for more explosions of violence. "
25That means we should consider whether more Muslim soldiers feel conflicted.
It in absolutely no way says 'yes, grant Muslim soldiers conscientious objector status.' I don't approve of war at all, so I'm not in a hurry to allow soldiers to say "I'd kill a Christian or a Jew or a Buddhist, but not a Muslim."
26Ok so what do we do if we find out they are more conflicted (though, I don't know what that means really... more conflicted than who?)? Then what do you think we should/could do?
27Since I never said 'more conflicted' so I can't help you.
If they really are so conflicted they think they can't be proper soldiers in Muslim related situations, let them leave the military, keep the gays.
28"the military should allow Muslim soldiers to be released as conscientious objectors instead of fighting in wars against other Muslims."
Who needs permission? It's a personal decision, decide to be a conscientious objector or don't. Muhammad Ali was a conscientious objector he didn't ask for permission. He owned his decision and didn't feel the need to take life to make his point.
IMO this man didn't go into service a terrorist but rather became a terrorist. An unorthodox one at that laying out his destiny for all to see, providing the clues on a silver platter. He was a wolf in sheep's clothing conflicted by his own studies and the soldier he was destroyed by his conclusions.
I think we can all agree that there was a serious failure by over seers who's job it is to recognize these clues but what they failed to remember is that sometimes you don't have to dig to find them sometimes they can be as plain as the nose on your face.
29You can call yourself a conscientious objector but if the military doesn't agree, you can also be called an inmate. Ali was convicted of draft evasion, stripped of his titles - it took five years of court battles and the Supreme Court before he was legally a conscientious objector.
30And since there is no draft, no ability to be a CO. If you object, don't join the military.
31Yes I understand Alli was technically a draft evader. But what was it that brought him to evasion? It was his conscience.
I'm sure I don't have to tell you that the human conscience is not immovable UnDave. That's like telling someone who finds that they want a divorce nine years after matrimony they should have never got married. His journey took him in another direction and unfortunately key people found themselves blind to his apparent red flag waving whether he was trying to get their attention or not.
32I don't condemn Ali for objecting. I do condemn anyone who joins the military now, but isn't willing to "be all they can be". This guy chose a side, and now he should pay for that decision.
33And I don't want to go into the whole divorce issue. That's a lack of committment.
34I agree he deserves to pay for his crime. I also think that his superiors and colleagues need to pay for their complacency.
35I agree, but the issue is deeper than that. His superiors didn't speak up because they were afraid of being reprimanded for not being PC. If they had pursued, they most likely would've been sued by the ACLU et al, calling their prosecution based on his religion.
36I think people are freaking out too much over the motive and whether or not he was a terrorist or what he majored in (? not sure why that matters) rather than why the army still kept him around.
37...and honestly when it boils down to it I agree with Harmony. Sad that no one's hearing about the victims of this senseless tragedy.
38I agree em, look at the thread on here that is about the victims, I think it got 3 responses.
39His superiors didn't speak up because they were afraid of being reprimanded for not being PC
Do you know that for a fact, Dave? Who has said that or where has that been reported? If everything that is being reported is true, they should have been acting. And I don't think anyone would have claimed unjust persecution, given what has been reported.
I agree with Hypno - he should face the stiffest punishment there is (can a military court give the death penalty?) and those that should have acted, and didn't, should also face some type of punishment.
40Other than 13 of the victims are dead, we don't know much abotu them. It's a little difficult to have a lengthy discussion about something when there isn't any info being given. You can only say It's senseless and tragic about 3 ways.
41A military tribunal can give him the death penalty, which I hope they don't. Life in Levinworth would be much more difficult. Between the hard labor, and the nightly beatings for being a traitor....
42I agree it is easy to allow our speculation to run wild but just try to keep it real and in step with the official released information. This story is far from over that's for sure.
43I saw a pretty lengthy report about two of the people who were killed from IL on the news. I know it might be more of a local thing, but considering that it's a national story, they deserve more attention.
"His superiors didn't speak up because they were afraid of being reprimanded for not being PC"
I'm not in the military, but that is incredibly offensive to anyone who has served/is serving in the armed forces, IMO. Oh yeah, the military--what a bunch of losers who were just too *afraid* to save people's lives!
44"His superiors didn't speak up because they were afraid of being reprimanded for not being PC"
45You know this how?
My husband is in the military and he agrees that you have to be pc or it reflects badly on you.
46I think thats pretty unfair that a Muslim who one day decides he's a conscientious objector *cough*becauseheactuallyhastoliveuptohiscommitment*cough* can get a free pass simply for being Muslim. I would be pretty pissed if it came down to that.
And yes, in the military, you do still have to worry about being PC.
47This Politically Correct military of which you speak and are so personally familiar with is the same military with the rape problem and the murdered female personnel problem and the toss out more than one gay a day problem?
I don't think Political Correctness embraces those things.
No one's giving Muslims a free pass Haus, but personally, I would let them leave the military if they felt they couldn't do the job - because that way the people doing the job weren't unpleasantly surprised in life-threatening situations.
48Well maybe we should just not them in and then we don't have to worry about it. Saves time and money.
And yes, its the PC military that has to investigate every single allegation of everything... just because you don't see the investigations, doesn't mean they aren't there.
49Okay so to be P.C. the military has to 'investigate every single allegation of everything.'
So someone has to risk being un-pc or the allegations never get made and nothing ever gets investigated.
Or are you suggesting the outcomes of the investigations are driven by political correctness - and findings might be hedged to protect against being politically incorrect?
Because political correctness as I understand it would allow someone threatening the lives of co-workers to be taken out of the group.
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