
President Obama and top Pentagon officials met repeatedly over the past year about repealing “don’t ask, don’t tell,” the law that bans openly gay members of the military.
But it was in Oval Office strategy sessions to review court cases challenging the ban — ones that could reach the Supreme Court — that Mr. Obama faced the fact that if he did not change the policy, his administration would be forced to defend publicly the constitutionality of a law he had long opposed.
As a participant recounted one of the sessions, Mr. Obama told Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates and Adm. Mike Mullen, the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, that the law was “just wrong.” Mr. Obama told them, the participant said, that he had delayed acting on repeal because the military was stretched in two wars and he did not want another polarizing debate in 2009 to distract from his health care fight. But in 2010, he told them, this would be a priority. He got no objections.
On Tuesday, in the first Congressional hearing on the issue in 17 years, Mr. Gates and Admiral Mullen will unveil the Pentagon’s initial plans for carrying out a repeal, which requires an act of Congress. Gay rights leaders say they expect Mr. Gates to announce in the interim that the Defense Department will not take action to discharge service members whose sexual orientation is revealed by third parties or jilted partners, one of the most onerous aspects of the law. Pentagon officials had no comment.
Gay rights groups are calling the hearing historic even as they question how quickly the administration is prepared to act.
But Republicans are already signaling that they are not eager to take up the issue. “In the middle of two wars and in the middle of this giant security threat,” Representative John A. Boehner of Ohio, the Republican leader, said Sunday on “Meet the Press” on NBC, “why would we want to get into this debate?”
Still, it is undeniable that a variety of 21st-century forces — a new generation in the military, a change in climate at the top levels of the Pentagon, pressure on the president from a critical interest group, even Senator Kirsten E. Gillibrand’s anticipated Democratic primary battle in New York — converged to begin repeal of a 1993 law that has led to the discharge of more than 13,000 gay men and lesbians, including desperately needed Arabic translators.
As Mr. Gates told Mr. Obama last year, it was no longer a question of if the ban would be repealed, but when, said the meeting participant, who declined to be named to discuss internal White House deliberations.
In the 2008 presidential campaign, Mr. Obama regularly pledged to repeal “don’t ask, don’t tell,” but in his first year in office he refused to set a timetable and said so little publicly about the issue that gay rights leaders, an important constituency, grew increasingly angry.
Pentagon officials, who were busy withdrawing forces from Iraq and escalating the war in Afghanistan, were pleased that the president was stalling. In April, Mr. Gates told reporters that he and the president wanted to push the issue “down the road a bit.”
In New York, Ms. Gillibrand, a former House member from a conservative upstate district who had just been appointed to the Senate seat vacated by Hillary Rodham Clinton, was moving to the left on several issues in anticipation of a primary this year.
In June she met with Lt. Dan Choi, a West Point graduate and an Arabic linguist and infantry officer in Iraq in 2006 and 2007. Lieutenant Choi is facing a discharge for announcing to Rachel Maddow on MSNBC in March that he was gay.
“This policy asked him to lie every day, and it was antithetical to everything he had learned in the military,” Ms. Gillibrand said in an interview. In July she tried and failed to introduce a bill for an 18-month moratorium on discharges and instead said she asked Senator Carl Levin, the Michigan Democrat who leads the Armed Services Committee, to hold a hearing on the issue.
Since then, Ms. Gillibrand has frequently told reporters that Harold E. Ford Jr., a former five-term Democratic congressman from Tennessee who is weighing a run for her seat, voted twice in favor of legislation to make same-sex marriage illegal. (Mr. Ford says he has changed his mind.)
Despite Ms. Gillibrand’s efforts, little happened on the issue over the summer, although Mr. Gates asked his legal counsel to determine if the Pentagon could avoid a discharge if a service member’s sexual orientation was revealed by someone else. “If somebody is outed by a third party, does that force us to take action?” he asked in late June.
By September, when any hearings would have been subsumed by the intense deliberations at the White House and Pentagon about escalating the war in Afghanistan, there was a small but telling sign of change: an article in Admiral Mullen’s military journal, Joint Force Quarterly, called “don’t ask, don’t tell” a failure and said no evidence supported the claim that allowing openly gay men and lesbians to serve would undercut unit cohesion.
In December, after the Afghanistan debate was over and Mr. Obama had announced the deployment of 30,000 more troops, Admiral Mullen convened a small group to prepare for what would finally be Mr. Levin’s hearings. There was hardly unanimity.
Although Pentagon officials were of the view that the younger rank and file did not care much about serving with openly gay service members, Gen. James T. Conway, the commandant of the Marine Corps, had major reservations. But as a practical matter, the military would follow the orders of the commander in chief.
Polls now show that a majority of Americans support openly gay service — a majority did not in 1993 — but there have been no recent broad surveys of the 1.4 million active-duty personnel.
A 2008 census by The Military Times of predominantly Republican and largely older subscribers found that 58 percent opposed to efforts to repeal the policy; in 2006, a poll by Zogby International of 545 Iraq and Afghanistan veterans found that three-quarters were comfortable around gay service members.
At the White House, Mr. Obama decided at a meeting shortly before Christmas to use his State of the Union address to reaffirm his support for repealing “don’t ask, don’t tell.” A White House official said that Mr. Obama’s call for repeal stayed through six drafts of the speech, despite reports of internal battles over how far he should go.
As Tuesday’s hearing approaches, no one is predicting that the issue will be easy.
Aaron Belkin, the director of the Palm Center at the University of California, Santa Barbara, a research group that focuses on repealing “don’t ask, don’t tell,” said he expected Mr. Gates to announce on Tuesday that the Pentagon would end discharges based on third-party accusations, but also that it would move slowly, which Mr. Belkin opposes.
“By signaling that integration is a complicated, fragile process and slow-rolling it over a number of years, you give obstructionists in the military the chance to stir up trouble in their units,” he said.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/01/us/politics/01military.html?hpw
Jasmine Di Milo
Mulberry
Tripp
So basically it's going to take some time to repeal the law but when it comes to enforcement the law has just had it's wings clipped.
I really don't think that the debate is going to be as melodramatic as some republicans are suggesting. All the administration needs are some key high level military representatives and Republicans to sing in harmony with them on this issue and the fat lady will come on out and sing honey.
1this makes me laugh. go ahead and repeal it, so it will be enacted when? in 2011? with the spending freeze? and how are you going to build all those new barracks and funnel all the money to change what needs to be changed?
yeah... well. i think if you have a lick of common sense you won't hold your breath.
this is low on his radar. gitmo is high on his radar and its still open.
file this under "let's look like we're doing something to shut this group up"
2Ugh, I love McCain telling Mullen & Gates he wants to hear from the 'military' on the issue - why doesn't he just say he wants to hear from people he agrees with?
3So you're suggesting the military shouldn't have a voice in this? Or are you afraid that not enough people will agree with repealling it?
Personally I've never met anyone in the military who agrees with it. Granted, that's just my experience, but they seem to have a lot of good reasons and can make a very convincing argument.
4I believe Admiral Mullen is part of the military and I believe the article clearly states that Obama's had meetings with Pentagon officials all year.
I know those 'convincing' arguments from some within the military and I think it's time they got over themselves and stop trying to justify their own prejudices.
5Right because forcing beliefs on people is A-OK as long as it's the "right" beliefs.
Who cares what they have to say? What do they know? It's not as if they live it and do it every day... ohhhh wait....
No no, I'm sure the people sitting on their asses in Washington know much better.
6And I'm sure Admiral Mullen is just as in tuned to the needs his troops as CEOs are to the needs of their employees.
7You're making up the point you're arguing against.
No one said don't ask the military - Mullen is the military leadership and he doesn't spend all his time in Washington.
Anyway, plenty of people have found past McCain comments that “the day that the leadership of the military comes to me and says, Senator, we ought to change the policy, then I think we ought to consider seriously changing it because those leaders in the military are the ones we give the responsibility to.”
Apparently, he kept forgetting to add that he didn’t mean "Admiral" Mullen or "Defense Secretary" Gates!
8How do you figure I'm making the point I'm arguing against?
The people who are out on the frontlines doing it every day don't want this repealed. The people who sit in offices and worry about careers do want this repealled. They are out of touch. The truth is that if this was such a bad policy and so many people wanted to get rid of it, it would have been gone by now.
The reason it's not is not because of homophobia, that's just a convienant way to blackmail people into thinking your way.
9But it's been a year now and I'm starting to understand this admin... Instead of "Change you can beleive in" it's "Change you're going to get whether you like it or not because we always know better".
10I just heard that 80% of the general public has no problem with gays serving openly in the military.
I think the word here that has a lot of people on edge if they're on the fence about this issue is the phrase "serving openly". This doesn't mean running around announcing I'm gay...I'm gay and I say that because 9 x out of 10 when I hear an opposing argument this is the exaggerated example they use. Serving openly simply means not having to hide. Most gays don't want to make their sexuality an issue but at the same time they don't want to feel oppressed to keep it secret either.
Will the military have a minor adjustment period sure but ever so minor indeed.
11It's not minor though when you look at issues regarding housing, billeting, training, deploying, and sexual harassment (because there's bound to be some).
That's the problem, that's why it's not pragmatic. I'm not saying it's impossible, but people act like it's just Oh ok it's Monday and we don't allow gays and now it's Tuesday and we do and everything is fine. That's not the case. It's not like flipping a light switch.
So when we talk about deployments that are set and units revolving in and out of combat, to throw this in will most definately slow the process to a stand still which is why it's not very bright to do it in the middle of what we're trying to accomplish abroad.
And quite frankly, I think it's insincere coming from this admin. But that's a whole different tangent...
I don't think it's worth getting riled up about because I don't think there's any way this will be done by the end of his first term and then who knows what happens after that.
12More than 130 retired generals and admirals have called for repealing “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy on gays - and they only became generals and admirals after serving in places other than Washington.
More like change people have been calling for for years, but no one's had the sense or decency to make before now.
13130 huh? Out of how many millions that have served?
That's pretty pathetic.
It's interesting to me that you're willing to trust their judgement immediately but got forbid it's suggested that the CEO of a company is anything other than the devil, regardless of the fact that they too came up through the ranks. Especially since you're always telling me how people in the military are no better than anyone else... so why are these 130 chosen ones so genuine and in touch?
They're not.
And sense and decency? More like there are those who operate in reality and those who operate in theory. Theoretically it should be abolished immediately. In reality it's not that easy.
But hey, as long as we can pat ourselves on the back about how "evolved' we are, that's all that matters right?
14You're kind of spewing at everything aren't you? Kind of attacking everything? Misrepresenting things I've said in the past so you can attack it?
It's a lot easier than you want to think it is. Remember, there are gays sneaking all around the military now...
15So now you're just trying to take me down because you can't answer the points?
That's fine, but I'm not fooled.
I'm not misrepresenting anything you've said previously.
If it's so easy why hasn't it been done? Because everyone is homophobic? Please.
It's not easy, the military moves at a molasses pace, that's pretty common knowledge. The reason it works now is because it's not formally acknowledged. Once it becomes so then you have a whole host of questions that need to be answered from obvious ones like housing to less obvious ones like spousal coverage.
You can keep saying it's easy but you've provided no evidence to show and you've provided no answer to the most basic questions that arise. Just merely saying it's easy doesn't make it the truth.
16You haven't asked any questions worth answering, just spewed.
17Now now no spewing it's not lady like, lol!
18Ok...back to your corners ladies...
19I seriously have to spell it out for you? Because I've mentioned the issues TWICE now.
You're choosing to ignore it because it doesn't fit with your views. That's fine, but don't act like the problems aren't there... or like I haven't mentioned them... TWICE.
20I thought the military was a put up or shut up job, so why, when it comes to acknowledging that gay people serve in the military, do we suddenly have to worry about special housing?
21Gays have been fighting and dying for this as long as it’s been a country, so stop acting like they have cooties.
Haus you know I adore you like a bowl of warm frosting on a cold Winters eve but I think your idea of the impact this is going to cause is a bit melodramatic.
Ever since I've been out of the closet (age19) I've known gay men and women who have served in the military and with out any drama what so ever. I think it's safe to say that none of them to my knowledge ever made their sexual orientation a (statement) however some where in relationships and although they never went out of their way to make a statement about it when you're serving four plus years in the military and sharing camaraderie and stories of your personal life and family with your fellow soldiers that knowledge naturally filtered out. None to my knowledge have ever had issues with their fellow hetero-sexual soldiers who became aware of their sexuality. Sure some were obviously uncomfortable because of their own back ground and how they were raised but the bridge of understanding lied with their experience in already having a history of camaraderie and friendship with these gays and lesbians. When I came out to my straight jock womanizing friends in college yeah they tripped on it for minute but then they weighed that against who they know I am and what I mean in their lives they chilled out. In other words they judged me by the content of my character not who I make whoopi with.
IMO it's time to stop giving into fear and stop underestimating the ability of people to open their minds. As long as we suggest they keep their minds narrow, their minds will be narrow. Other nations have shown us that this can work just fine and I have no doubt what so ever that our hardened military soldiers will be able to reason this out in their own heads and get over it.
22Ok...I've had it up to here with all this barracks and uncomfortable nonsense.
So what you're saying is that men and women who are courageous and strong enough to risk their lives in war for this country are going to be overwhelmed by the fact that they might be changing in front of someone who might find them attractive (you know under circumstances that don't involve being woke up at the crack of dawn and being yelled at by a DI in a smokey).
Personally I find it a bit insulting to them as soldiers. Even high school and middle school students are expected to get over it.
23You could approach if from safety issue, like with men and women, but last time I checked us queer people are still waaay in the minority and I think a group could defend themselves from such a minor population of the same sex.
hypno I'm not saying it's the actions of a gay person or their demeanor or anything, no no no. I'm just saying that by the bottom line of them being attracted to the same sex that present a host of problems because the military seperates the sexes.
You simply CANNOT have people in a high stress environment cohabitating with those they can be sexually involved with. If you could and it was ok and everything would be fine, then why do we make men and women live apart now? There is a reason for that and I don't think people should have to give up their personal privacy just to accept homosexuals....
and if they should, then make the women shower with the men. No seperation whatsoever. Because otherwise that would be unfair.
24jessie- last time i checked the military doesn't make women undress in front of men for this very reason. and i think there's plenty of women in the military who WOULD be uncomfortable undressing in front of men and that has NOTHING to do with how brave they are or the sacrifices they make.
so unless you're totally cool with putting women through that, i don't think there's a leg to stand on. if we're going to respect the personal privacy of women, we have to do it for men too.
25and what high school did you go to that made you undress in front of the opposite sex??
26but they've been changing in front of gays in their barracks for years, so all this stuff about who's attracted to who isn't really an issue. it's not like there are no gays in the military.
heck, this would let the homophobes know exactly who not to get naked in front of
27@Hous:You raise a valid issue regarding the parallels of women and homosexuals vs. hetero men. However I would counter that with even if we say wait to do this as many opponents are suggesting that implies this is going to happen later than sooner but it is going to happen regardless of anything so there for the parallel which you brought up although a valid point will have no sway then so why should it hold sway now.
28"You simply CANNOT have people in a high stress environment cohabitating with those they can be sexually involved with."
As Jessie said, this is insulting to soldiers - and judging by the experiences of at least two dozen countries that have allowed gays to openly serve in their militaries for more than a decade, it's simply wrong. Mature adults can and do cohabitate in high stress environments with those they can be sexually involved with. In a study by the GAO,
29military officials from Canada, Israel, and Sweden said
that, on the basis of their experience, the inclusion of homosexuals in the military is not a problem and has not adversely affected unit readiness, effectiveness, cohesion, or morale.
I agree with Haus that it is a rather complicated issue as far as implementation goes, but I also agree with Hypno that this IS going to happen. It's just a matter of time. So we might as well figure out how to make it feasible now.
I think it's kind of awesome actually that the military will be blazing ahead of the rest of the country as far as gay rights goes. There is even talk of the military recognizing gay relationships and providing benefits for such.
30And Steph we definitely should look to Canada, Israel, and Sweden for examples of how best to implement it.
31Yes other countries have done it successfully and we should look at how they did that but that doesn't mean that what works for them will work for us.
Other countries also have lower drinking ages and legalized prostitution and marijuana use... that doesn't mean those things will work for us either. We're not a homogenous society.
I agree that full integration is going to happen eventually and I do think it's the right thing to do, but I think to force it with no concern whatsoever for the personal privacy of those already serving is arrogant and inconsiderate. If we respect the rights of women, we should respect the rights of men.
32Haus they keep been a women separate because it's an issue of safety, not merely being uncomfortable. Having to undress in front of someone who could physically compromise you is different than undressing in front of someone of the same gender...public bathrooms are separate for those reasons as well, despite individual stalls.
Also I highly doubt sexual involvement on the side is going to be hindered or boosted by repealing Don't Ask Don't Tell. Maybe that's just my experience on Marine Corp bases.
33Haus...personal privacy? This is the military, having to undress in front of anyone you don't want to, because they are bullying you or harassing you (harassment doesn't have to be sexual, nor does sexual harassment necessarily hinge on sexual orientation, a lot of it is about dominance) can be considered an invasion of privacy.
Not to say soldiers don't have basic rights, but part of being in the military is the sacrifice of certain everyday comforts.
34"Other countries also have lower drinking ages and legalized prostitution and marijuana use... that doesn't mean those things will work for us either."
Those are comparable to allowing homosexual people serve their country? Really?
Are you saying that Americans are so randy that they can't be in a situation that men and women in other countries seem to be handling fine?
The idea that this is being forced on people without thought falls apart in the face of the length of time this has been debated, and on the fact that neither Obama nor the Pentagon has taken unilateral action to make the change.
35havent taken unilateral action YET... is there really any doubt they will if the findings dont agree with them? Given past actions? No doubt in my mind at all.
And a big part of the reaon genders are seperate is because of the sexual aspect... if we respect that for women, we have to respect it for men.
36What do you think straight soldiers have to fear from being housed with gay soldiers? What findings do you think anyone could come up with now that would be gamechangers?
37haus I see your perspective but with all due respect I feel that people that share your opinion are really underestimating our young men and women's ability to adapt.
Might I also point out that it is the younger generation that vastly tolerates homosexuals in society vs. the older generation which are in the position to repeal this. If all of our federal representatives were under 35 this would be repealed tomorrow.
38i'm not saying it shoudnt be done. just that its more complicated than some here like to think.
39So you think it should be done, Haus?
40oh yeah of course, it's just a matter of time that its going to happen (like gay marriage) so may as well just get it done and cross it off the list.
but i'm hesitant because i want it to be done in a way thats respectful and considerate and at a time where it makes sense (like maybe not in the middle of 2 wars). so i'm split on that... maybe get a plan together that will implement it slowly so we can see how it goes.
41Thank you for the response.
42thanks for asking!
43Haus that doesn't make any sense to me. The military acknowledged that they had gay people in the forces, yet the law was you could be gay, but you couldn't be out. If it was a matter of personal privacy, than the law should have been that you couldn't be gay at all and that anyone entering was essentially lying to do so. People know that they are changing in front of gay people already, some might say especially the women, they just don't know who they are. There never was any privacy, it was all an illusion at the expense of their fellow soldiers.
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