Fishy statements about health care reform
Posted on August 11th, 2009 by kbh in Blog format, budget, featured, health, taxes
I sent the following email to flag@whitehouse.gov this morning.
From: Keith Hennessey
Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 7:47 AM
To: flag@whitehouse.gov
bcc: surveil@fbi.gov; bigbro@dhs.gov; patriot.act@nsa.gov; anon6427@dni.gov
Subject: Fishy statements about health care reform
The Honorable Linda Douglass
Communications Director
Health Reform Office
The White House
Dear Ms. Douglass:
I write in response to the request posted on the White house blog, “Facts are stubborn things.”
If you get an email or see something on the web about health insurance reform that seems fishy, send it to flag@whitehouse.gov .
I call to your attention several fishy statements about health care reform legislation made by a gentleman named Dr. Douglas Elmendorf. He claims to be Director of the “Congressional Budget Office” and has posted frequently about health care reform on his website, cbo.gov. This information takes the form of personal posts on his Director’s Blog, as well as in-depth reports that have the veneer of competent, thorough, impartial professional analysis. The IP address of his site is 206.106.246.254, and his organization has named their hideout the “Ford House Office Building.”
Elmendorf appears to have several hundred followers in his organization, which has extraordinary influence over many in Congress. I understand that some right-wing Members of Congress support and even vote for his annual funding source.
CBO and Elmendorf make extraordinary claims about bills moving through Congress that attempt to implement the President’s plans for health care reform. I bring them to your attention so that you can refute them. I have included these allegations below. Specifically, Elmendorf and his rabble-rousers make the following claims:
•The House bill would increase the budget deficit by $239 B over the next ten years. This conflicts with the President’s goal of not increasing short-term deficits.
•Ten years from now the House bill would add $65 B to the budget deficit. This conflicts with the President’s insistence that legislation must not increase the deficit in that year.
•The House bill would increase long-term budget deficits by ever-increasing amounts, making our long-term debt problem worse than under current law. This of course conflicts with the President’s statements that “health care reform is entitlement reform,” and that health care reform is essential to addressing America’s long-term budget problems.
•Rather than “bending the cost curve down” as the President has laudably insisted, Dr. Elmendorf said the Senate HELP Committee bill would “raise the cost curve.”
•Under the House bill, in the year 2015 about 8 million uninsured Americans would remain uninsured and pay higher taxes. This would violate the President’s pledge not to raise taxes on anyone earning less than $250,000 per year.
•Under the House bill, about 3 million people who now have employer-sponsored health insurance would lose that coverage because their employer drops it, violating the President’s bold promise that no one will lose the health plan they have now.
•The President’s Medicare Commission proposal would probably save only $2 billion over ten years, and there is a high probability it would save no taxpayer money. In the long run the saving would be “modest.”
If this suspect “Congressional Budget Office” is publishing disinformation about either health care reform, I hope you can correct it. A lot of important people seem to listen to this Elmendorf guy. Left unrefuted, these claims suggest that the bills being developed in the House and Senate would harm the U.S. economy and millions of Americans in violation of the President’s stated goals.
Sincerely,
Keith Hennessey
KeithHennessey.com
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Seemingly fishy statements about health care reform
made by Dr. Douglas Elmendorf and his “Congressional Budget Office”
Effect on short-term budget deficits
“According to CBO’s and JCT’s assessment, enacting H.R. 3200 would result in a net increase in the federal budget deficit of $239 billion over the 2010-2019 period. That estimate reflects a projected 10-year cost of the bill’s insurance coverage provisions of $1,042 billion, partly offset by net spending changes that CBO estimates would save $219 billion over the same period, and by revenue provisions that JCT estimates would increase federal revenues by about $583 billion over those 10 years.” Elmendorf blog post
“By the end of the 10-year period, in 2019, the coverage provisions would add $202 billion to the federal deficit, CBO and JCT estimate. That increase would be partially offset by net cost savings of $50 billion and additional revenues of $86 billion, resulting in a net increase in the deficit of an estimated $65 billion.” Elmendorf blog post
Effects on long-term budget deficits
“In sum, relative to current law, the proposal would probably generate substantial increases in federal budget deficits during the decade beyond the current 10-year budget window.” Elmendorf letter to Reps. Camp, Barton, Kline, and Ryan
“The net cost of the coverage provisions would be growing at a rate of more than 8 percent per year in nominal terms between 2017 and 2019; we would anticipate a similar trend in the subsequent decade. … Revenue from the surcharge on high-income individuals would be growing at about 5 percent per year in nominal terms between 2017 and 2019; that component would continue to grow at a slower rate than the cost of the coverage expansion in the following decade.” Elmendorf letter to Reps. Camp, Barton, Kline, and Ryan
Eight million uninsured paying higher taxes
See table “Preliminary Analysis of the Insurance Coverage Specifications Provided by the House Tri-Committee Group,” of this CBO cost estimate. 16m people would be uninsured post-policy, of whom about half would be unauthorized immigrants.
Three million people losing the health plan they have now because of the bill
“In addition, CBO and the JCT staff estimate that nearly 6 million other people who would be covered by an employment-based plan under current law would not have such coverage under the proposal. That figure includes part-time employees, who could receive subsidies via an exchange even though they have an employer’s offer of coverage, and about 3 million people who would not have an employer’s offer of coverage under the proposal. Firms that would choose not to offer coverage as a result of the proposal would tend to be smaller employers and those that predominantly employ lower-wage workers—people who would be eligible for subsidies through the exchanges—although some workers who were not eligible for subsidies through the exchanges also would not have coverage available through their employers. Whether those changes in coverage would represent the dropping of existing coverage or a lack of offers of new coverage is difficult to determine.” Elmendorf letter to Chairman Rangel (July 14, 2009)
The President’s “IMAC” Medicare Commission proposal
“CBO estimates that enacting the proposal, as drafted, would yield savings of $2 billion over the 2010-2019 period (with all of the savings realized in fiscal years 2016 through 2019) if the proposal was added to H.R. 3200, the America’s Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009, as introduced in the House of Representatives.” Elmendorf letter to House Majority Leader Hoyer (July 25, 2009)
“This estimate represents the expected value of the 10-year savings from the proposal: In CBO’s judgment, the probability is high that no savings would be realized, for reasons discussed below, but there is also a chance that substantial savings might be realized.” Elmendorf letter to House Majority Leader Hoyer (July 25, 2009)
“Looking beyond the 10-year budget window, CBO expects that this proposal would generate larger but still modest savings on the same probabilistic basis.” Elmendorf letter to House Majority Leader Hoyer (July 25, 2009)
“The proposed legislation states that IMAC’s recommendations cannot generate increased Medicare expenditures, but it does not explicitly direct the council to reduce such expenditures nor does it establish any target for such reductions.” Elmendorf letter to House Majority Leader Hoyer (July 25, 2009)
http://keithhennessey.com/2009/08/11/fishy-statements/
Conran
Did Mr. Hennessey receive a call from the secret service or did they visit him personally?
1***************
"I will marshal all the forces of darkness to hound you to an assisted suicide." - In the Loop
It's scary that a President thinks he needs to intimidate people to squelch debate.
2"fishy statements" - can someone please clarify the word "fishy"
Additionally if one disagrees with Obama's healthcare plan and thinks that the new plan is fishy, should we send that to the Whitehouse?
"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have".
3Thomas Jefferson
Has he gotten a response yet?
4Grandpa, it looked like you were trying to bold just certain parts. You had some [b]'s at the end of paragraphs that I assume you wanted to be [/b]'s so I changed it, let me know if that's not right.
5TS, you've gone mad with power.
6I've probably fixed people's html at least a dozen times. You leave off one slash and the whole thing becomes italicized when you just meant one word to be. I was just feeling too lazy to take the extra two clicks to send a PM vs. just leaving a comment.
7Hey, you don't have to justify yourself to me, Dear Leader.
8I'm going to be forwarding this to the White House.
9I don't see why anyone would suspect the government of not being able to save money in its programs. After all, in every program where they have mandated a savings...oh that's right! In every case the savings disappears!
10Still squelching debate by using these tactics is pretty abominable. I suspect that martial law will be next.. and he will blame it on the riots by people who are upset about having elected officials doing what they don't want!
Touchy around here. I was just kidding
11I was also kidding. About forwarding this. But not about correcting html. I also frequently add sources when people forget.
12Fishy statements
Obama: "I will not sign a bill that increases our nation's debt or deficit."
"The American citizens can not withstand the rapid increase of Health coverage."
This last one is fishy because he is attacking the insurance companies, which aren't the problem. How about we look at the actual causes of dramatic increases in health care, instead of deamonizing and entire industry that came in to business to fill the need to help pay for the cost of healthcare.
13True, you are right about the "/B" You know how us old folks are, our mids wander, and we lose track and focus easil :heart:TS ;heart:
14mids = minds ( see what i mean?) Now what was i saying again?
15How is it that Fed Ex and UPS are making money, but a the Gov.t run P.O., like am track is a financial "basket case"
16Speaking of Senior moments, this is from ABC NEWS site:
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2009/08/president-obamas-senior-...
Rachel Martin and Jake Tapper report:
President Obama today suggested that the health care reform legislation for which he’s pushing has been endorsed by the American Association of Retired Person.
“We have the AARP on board because they know this is a good deal for our seniors,” the president said.
At another point he said: “Well, first of all, another myth that we've been hearing about is this notion that somehow we're going to be cutting your Medicare benefits. We are not. AARP would not be endorsing a bill if it was undermining Medicare, okay?”
The problem?
The AARP hasn't endorsed any plan yet.
The country's largest advocacy group for Americans over 50 issued a statement after the event saying, "While the President was correct that AARP will not endorse a health care reform bill that would reduce Medicare benefits, indications that we have endorsed any of the major health care reform bills currently under consideration in Congress are inaccurate."
Today’s town hall meeting was quite tame compared to what Democratic members of Congress have been facing in recent
17The AARP has come awfully close this week:
DES MOINES - AARP officials unveiled a national ad blitz Monday to counter what the organization says are attempts to scare and confuse seniors by opponents of health-care reform.
They say they want to counter "false assertions" that health-care changes would include a government takeover, rationed care or euthanasia.
The campaign, which includes ads on TV, radio and in print, seeks to dispel what they say are myths about health-care reform.
Bruce Koeppl, AARP's Iowa senior state director, said they want to counter claims that reforms would lead to rationing or would put government in charge of whether older Americans with medical problems get to live or die.
"They are, frankly, lies. They are not true," Koeppl said.
Koeppl said the organization will be attending town hall meetings held by members of Congress and host its own town hall meeting.
Koeppl said the disruptions caused by health-care reform opponents at town hall meetings across the country, including one sponsored by U.S. Sen. Tom Harkin, D-Iowa, over the weekend in Des Moines, have been "unfortunate."
"There are groups of people that are motivated by a political agenda, but there are also people that are sincere about what their concerns are, and those people, frankly, are not getting a chance to ask those questions and hear the answers from members of Congress because of the disruptions," Koeppl said.
Sen. Ron Wieck, R-Sioux City, is one of the skeptics on the health-care reform legislation and thinks a government takeover is the ultimate goal.
"I really believe that there's an agenda here, and the agenda goes beyond what a lot of people are seeing and believing the agenda is," he said.
http://www.qctimes.com/news/state-and-regional/iowa/article_c4b1d10a-862...
18Grandpa, have you ever compared prices on USPS vs UPS or FedEx? To overnight an envelope through regular mail is like fifteen bucks, and to do FedEx is at least twenty.
The postal service is limited by a law that only allows them to increase postage a certain amount per year. I forget if it's tied to inflation or what, but I know last year they only increased the cost of a stamp two cents because it's all they could legally do.
Honestly, the post office will take something from Maine to Arizona for forty two cents. That is pretty darn impressive.
19Fed ex & ups come to the door for p/u's and delivery, they are responsible for the package and you can track it at no additional fee. Plus they speak English and are pleasant.
20***************
"I will marshal all the forces of darkness to hound you to an assisted suicide." - In the Loop
ISPS will also pick up packages at your door, just FYI. Also, they come to your door every day!
The "no additional fee" for tracking is actually built into the higher price you pay.
And every postal worker I can recall speaking to seemed to me like a native English speaker, but I suppose that could be regional.
In general I am a big fan of the post office. It's kind of amazing.
21I prefer the post office over other types of shipping, mostly because I have a PO Box and packages arrive quicker than they would if they were shipped to my house.
22No, they go to my mailbox, not my door. Come to NYC and talk to the PO people - English is not their language of choice. They used to be really good and now not so good.
23***************
"I will marshal all the forces of darkness to hound you to an assisted suicide." - In the Loop
#17...that is astonishing. Our leader actually says one thing but means another... wait...I meant "says one thing but the fact is another"....nope... "hopes we think he says one think and assume the other"....yep--pretty sure it was the last one...however I am still confused.
24TS...I never get that bold thingie right. Sorry.
25I have to agree about the post office, the sheer quantity that they deliver six days a week is impressive.
26You get mail 6 days a week? Here, tuesdays is nothing and now so is wednesday. I guess it depends on where you live if you have a good PO or not.
27***************
"I will marshal all the forces of darkness to hound you to an assisted suicide." - In the Loop
"It's scary that a President thinks he needs to intimidate people to squelch debate."
Where did you get that from? He isn't squelching debate, he is clarifying the MASSIVE LIES that Republicans have been spreading...like death panels, illegal immigrants getting covered, medicare being taken away from seniors, etc. The list of lies is too huge to name!
The fact that you would call clarification intimidation, and yet ignore the ACTUAL intimidation that is going on from the opposition says a lot. Obama isn't the one who brought a gun to a town hall meeting, and he isn't hanging people in effigy, or using signs with swasticas and shouting over other citizens so they can't have their questions answered.
28Whether you love the post office or not really isn't the point. You have the OPTION to use it, or you have the OPTION to use the services of a private company. Some people like one, others like a different choice. Just as with the government insurance OPTION, you could use it if you like, or you could chose a private company's plan.
29I get mail 6 days a week.
30I told myself I was going to stay out of the political bs now that I'm not in the US anymore but this was too much for me. I for the life of me will never understand how some Americans can be so anti-government and anything government made. You'd think you see it in other places, where government made things are crappy, when in comparison to what people in the US have. It's not perfect but it's damn sure better than what's out there. When I was still back in the states, my mail from USPS came Mon-Sat between 1:30-2pm like clockwork. Only time I didn't get mail was on some national holidays. USPS may not be up to par with some of you but they are damn good and to deal with that they do on any given day, all of our postman and postwomen deserve a freaking award.
and I'm still not seeing how is this email intimidating. Since when was clarifying something an intimidation?
31~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Life is short. Enjoy it while you can.
Exactly, Myst, where is the intimidation in this?
32I get mail six days a week too.
Some days I will get no mail and it weirds me out. Because you at least usually get some piece of junk mail. It makes me suspicious when no-mail days happen on really pleasant weather days.
But then my poor mailman comes slagging through crazy snow, delivering at like 7 pm because that's when the roads finally clear and I feel badly for doubting his commitment.
33The President isn't going to refute every stupid, outrageous email that people send. He knows that to refute most of them would just give them more weight than is due. The "fishy" email collection has nothing to do with gathering intelligence. It's not hard to figure out what people are saying about the health care plan without having people report on their fellow citizens. I'm sure that his aides could gather up more points to refute than they have time to refute without this plan.
Emailing dissenting emails to the whitehouse obviously carries with it a certain amount of intimidation. The entire chain of emails, names, and identifies of those dissenting with the president will be logged. The point of this is to discourage people from sending emails dissenting with the plan.
34or, squelching debate is just a very happy, forseeable externality from a very stupid idea.
35"Obama isn't the one who brought a gun to a town hall meeting, and he isn't hanging people in effigy, or using signs with swasticas and shouting over other citizens so they can't have their questions answered."
Obama brought lots of guns to his townhall meeting yesterday. He just wasn't personally carrying them.
And I guess you're ignoring the AFL-CIO sending their union thugs to intimidate people. And I guess you're also going to ignore who has perpetrated the most severe act of violence so far in this debate.
36Obama brought lots of guns to his townhall meeting yesterday.
what? Michelle Obama was there with her big bad arms?!
37Yeah, she's ripped.
38HOTTEST ARMS ALIIIIVE! !
39just stumbled upon this article:Obama Says Grandmother’s Hip Replacement Raises Cost Questions
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601070&sid=aGrKbfWkzTqc
40***************
"I will marshal all the forces of darkness to hound you to an assisted suicide." - In the Loop
If you sent the White House scanned copies of the fishy emails with names deleted, or cut and pasted just the content of the email, no one would come banging on your door demanding to know who sent it to you. The White House wants the fishy information, not the names of nitwits.
All presidents travel with security - are we going to object to that now?
41A lot of the issues like dying grandmother hip replacements would come up in those living will chats with doctors.
42How many people snitching are going to want to or take the time to delete the name and IP address of those they are snitching on. Tattle tales love to see their victims pay the price.
43***************
"I will marshal all the forces of darkness to hound you to an assisted suicide." - In the Loop
I would think it would depend on exactly what the dissenters said, as to whether or not anyone would be interested to know who said it.
I'm not objecting to Obama bringing guns to a debate. I just don't see how someone could claim he didn't.
44I'm sure Obama wouldn't mind an opportunity to vilify, for instance, insurance company executives who forwarded emails that he found objectionable.
45Palin's made seriously fishy health care claims and I don't see the White House chasing her. If you honestly think the White House is looking to retaliate against people who say stupid things in emails, you're flattering yourselves.
The White House was given wider powers to listen in on what we were saying and writting to each other a couple of years ago. So far, Congress isn't interested in investigating an Administration that exceeds its authority - so Obama doesn't need people to send in emails if the purpose is to create an enemies list.
46I would probably raise more of an eyebrow about this if it hadn't been for the ridiculous lies and rumors from the campaign. They had to start that whole site--Fight the Smears was it?--to combat rumors going around in emails. My own mother sent me the one that said Obama refused to put his hand over his heart during the pledge or something. So I can see why they want to gather info on rumors so they can combat them.
I mean, people really think Obama's going to go door to door killing old people.
47I agree stephley, he certainly doesn't need people to send in emails to create an enemies list or to find out what the healthcare rumors are. Which is why the purpose of this email collecting is little more than to make people think twice before forwarding healthcare information in opposition to the reform package.
I've seen him vilify insurance executives too many times to agree that he might not seize upon another opportunity to do it.
48What exactly do you think Obama will do if he catches someone who writes an email with health care misinformation?
Insurance company executives are adults with plenty of money, power and p.r. firms - they can handle it if the President calls them out once in a while. I can't think of a president who never called any one out during his term - it often becomes a badge of honor among presidential opponents.
49I thought you said he wouldn't call out individuals.
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