
Wow. Here's an angle that's out of outer space with the health care debate. The fat pride movement is pissed off at the language of the debate. Article is here.
Marilyn Wann is an author and weight diversity speaker in Northern California who has a message for anyone making judgments about her health based on her large physique. “The only thing anyone can accurately diagnose by looking at a fat person is their own level of stereotype and prejudice about fat,” said Ms. Wann, a 43-year-old San Franciscan whose motto in life is also the title of her book: “Fat! So?”
Hers has been an oft-repeated message this summer and fall by members of the “fat pride” community, given that the nation is in the midst of a debate about health care. That debate has, sometimes awkwardly, focused its attention on the growing population of overweight and obese Americans with unambiguous overtones: fat people should lose weight, for the good of us all.
Heavier Americans are pushing back now with newfound vigor in the policy debate, lobbying legislators and trying to move public opinion to recognize their point of view: that thin does not necessarily equal fit, and that people can be healthy at any size.
Extra weight brings with it an increased risk of chronic disease, medical experts say, and heavier people tend to have medical costs that are substantially higher than their leaner counterparts. As a result, Congress is considering proposals in the effort to overhaul health care that would make it easier for employers to use financial rewards or penalties to promote healthy behavior by employees, like weight loss.
Other less-scientific arguments have also gained traction on blogs, chat shows and editorial pages since talk of the overhaul began in earnest, with the overweight cast as lazy or gluttonous liabilities and therefore not entitled to universal health coverage because of poor personal decision-making. As that thinking goes, a healthful eater should not have to pay for the consequences of someone else’s greasy burger binges.
Either way, heavy people — characterized as over-consumers of health care or as those who should miss out on discounts because of their size — say they have been maligned throughout the debate.
“I thought, ‘Health reform? Yay!’ ” said Lynn McAfee, the director of medical advocacy for the Council on Size and Weight Discrimination, an advocacy group for heavy people. But Ms. McAfee said it was not long before her sentiment changed to the more sober, “Oh no, we’re being scapegoated again.”
It is an uphill battle. But the health care debate has, unexpectedly, also provided an opportunity for new expressions of what Ms. Wann calls “fat pride,” the notion that weight diversity is a good thing and that size discrimination is as offensive as any other kind.
“The stigma is so heavy a burden that it took our community 40 years before it could go to Capitol Hill and lobby for ourselves,” said Ms. Wann, a member of the National Association to Advance Fat Acceptance, an advocacy group that organized a lobbying trip to Washington for its members this spring. “We’re kind of a popular punching bag. You can do incredibly discriminating, hurtful, hateful things to fat people in public and not only get away with it but be seen as some kind of superhero.”
I have conflicted thoughts on this movement. On one hand, I think that everyone should be treated with respect and human dignity. On the other, I think the fat acceptance movement is the equivalent of a three year old putting their fingers in their ears and shouting "I don't want to hear it!" I am not about to enable a lifestyle choice that's making the obesity epidemic explode.
sweatyBetty
I thought there was very reliable information that people who are overweight are more likely to have joint problems, have diabetes, and other life threatening health issues that "thin" people don't have?
1Uh, yeah. There are any number of obvious problems with being fat. The sky is also blue, and the Pope is also Catholic.
2There are numerous ways to loose weight. You just have to take the time to love yourself enough to do it. You cannot blame other people because they didn't force you too eat anything unhealty...in LARGE portions....and TOO many portions at that.
3I say whatev, if you're fat and your healthy we're not talking to you. We're talking to those who are obese to their own detriment causing chronic health issues for themselves. If their chronically ill with quality of life issues directly related to their weight these are the fat people we are addressing. If your a size 18 and fit as fiddle not talking to you.
As for @$$holes who just make fun of big people for $hits and giggles that's an issue of immaturity that we all have to endure for different reasons, fat people are not the only ones who have to deal with that $hit.
4"that thin does not necessarily equal fit, and that people can be healthy at any size."
That is true. The problem is that sometimes people can look fat and actually be healthy, it's not as if every overweight person is morbidly obese.
5Perhaps that's true. I think it's very rare, if the case. It's very true, in my personal experience that the majority of obese people are in denial about it.
I had dinner with a relative two weeks ago who's easily 350 pounds and pre-diabetic. She ordered freaking ribs for dinner! There was the predictable, "Oh, I don't have this every day. It's just an indulgence. I've been cutting back." I am so sure.
I think there are a lot more obese people like her than there are obese people who are "healthy."
6Spacekat is right too. A lot of them are in denial when it comes to a lot of things.
When they order multiple plates and then look over at everyone with the comment of "oh, I don't eat like this everyday" - it's a joke, because we know that's a lie. That is why their unhealthy at 350 pounds.
They don't just get 100+ pounds over weight in just a month or two. The fat is thick on them and hard to get off. Their health is getting worse and it's their fault for not stopping it early.
It's not like they can't get help for their problems. But they have to admit to having a problem first and then taking the first step to getting better.
7"The stigma is so heavy a burden that it took our community 40 years before it could go to Capitol Hill and lobby for ourselves,"
um.... pun intended?
anyways, i think fat people and smokers should be paying more but it must be hard to enforce.
8There are so damn skinny people who eat twice as much as I do and I am on the heavy side of my healthy weight range. To say that it is only the fat people that eat like that is a HUGE stereotype. And it is SICKENING to watch those that slam anyone for even the slightest stereotype do what they complain about most. I eat less than any stick skinny person i know. I exercise more as well. WEIGHT is not a judge of HEALTH!!!! Now is it true that having weight on you can increase your chances of health problems, but so can taking birth control, being american indian and living near granite, so should we charge those people more as well???
9Weight is obviously a great yardstick of general health. Statistics show that lower BMI gives you a lower risk of cancer, heart disease, diabetes - we could name things all day. It just seems silly to me to reject the science of this.
When it comes to weight, what's wrong with the "personal responsibility" the Republicans are always championing? Own it. Take responsibility for it. It's enough with the defensiveness and excuses.
10either end of the weight scale is unhealthy but to claim your obesity (not fat or overweight) is something to be proud of or call people bigots for saying its unhealthy is just stupid. As stated above no one get to obesity in a month or a couple of weeks. Yes, it can be caused by other health issues but don't sit and eat without some form of exercise. The amount of calories you need to inhale to get that big is thousands of calories. And yes being a bit overweight when you are elderly has been stated in recent studies as being a benefit but we are not talking 20 pounds overweight. They can walk or swim since their weight would hinder them if they jogged.
People can love themselves and should learn to love themselves and be happy but their obesity affects those around them. Damage to furniture, floors, a personal peeve - they sit down in the subway for only a stop or two whether they fit or not and end up sitting on people and actually hurting them. I am not a size 2 and I think overly skinny people are just as bad to look at as morbidly obese people. But please don't start all this PC BS and tell me its something I have to accept. If we can force bulimics and anorexics into care & treatment why not someone who is 200 pounds overweight?
11It's sad that so many people are just showing how true it is that it is still acceptable to judge overweight people.
12So if people judge skinny, boney models and try to ban them from the runway (which is how they pay the bills) there's a difference? We are not talking overweight, that image above is morbid obesity. There is a distinct difference from being overweight to being obese or morbidly obese.
13Sam, it's wrong to slam either end of the spectrum. But it is more acceptable to be as skinny as a rail than to be overweight even if they are both equally unhealthy.
14not sure that's true anymore. i think both ends get slammed - i think the ones that would make a greyhound look fat are only now really hearing it in the media that pushed their image. when you push this stuff on either end its stupid. i see these girls who could pose for hunger relief campaigns everyday going on calls. so thin a wind would pick them up but when you see them on camera they actually look more normal - which scares me when they look that thin in an image; on the other end you have people who sue because the movie theater's seats could not accommodate their girth or who hold up a flight because they did not buy 2 seats and want a free upgrade or they need to go search for the seat belt extender. I have been told on a crowed train to move over so they could squeeze into a single or less then single seat or literally been popped out of my seat by them. You can not ask people to accommodate you when you are that big or small. Being obese or anorexic is not a handicap, it is something you have done to yourself.
15sam, i agreed with you until your last sentence. i do think that those diseases are often diseases. both can be triggered by depression and other ailments. i think that as you mentioned before, if we can force bulimics into treatment, we should be able to force the obese.
i do have to clarify that i also believe that not every obese person has a "disease"...many of them know exactly what they're doing to themselves. these fat movements don't help that at all.
16I'm totally with you, Sam.
I think obesity is so much more of a health threat that anorexia, but both are a choice. I would have no less a problem forcing someone into weight loss clinic that I would an ED program. In a twisted way, at least anorexia is suffering for a goal - rather than just hedonistic gluttony.
People are sometimes super pejorative to the skinny. I was once angrily called "Miss Skinny Mini" at a FUNERAL. I have had (fat) strangers ask me if I have periods regularly. It's always the overweight that do this - I think that your concept of what is healthy changes to justify your own weight.
This is off-topic, but I was in the emergency room earlier this year - and was talking to a really pretty nurse that was probably a size 10 and in her 30s. She was showing me her new teeth. She'd had to get them because of an ED she'd had in her teens that eventually destroyed her teeth. She also had really thin hair because she'd starved many of her follicles to death.
17one of my friends is a dental assistant for cosmetic and surgical dentistry. she tells me about these people (mostly women) who come in and need implants due to the acid they vomit up that eats at their teeth. She tells me there are a lot of ballerinas, actors and models whose careers where weight is a concern. They will actually sit and tell them what they eat and are thrilled with how little they are able to eat. When the doctor tells them how unhealthy they are they shrug it off.
When I am told my "ideal" weight - I just roll my eyes. If I weighed what my ideal is I would look sick and too thin. Those charts really need to be adjusted.
18i work out, i lift, i will never be my statistically calculated one size fits all "ideal" weight.
19You stay "statistically-calculated" like it's an insult. How else could one scientifically decide what is a healthy and non-healthy weight without disease and morbidity statistics? Do you feel that you're a special case, outside of the science on the matter?
20No I certainly don't feel I'm a special case but I'm not going to act as if there is such a thing as one size fits all medicine because there isn't.
My grandfather smoked for many years, quit, but still drank until the day he died... at 102. There are some people who don't fit the mold. Dana Reeves never smoked a day in her life and got lung cancer. Sometimes even when you do everything you can, it's just not enough or it just doesn't matter because of your genes or whatever.
Weight means nothing, BMI is essentially meaningless too, there are plenty of skinny people who are actually fat and unhealthy. Where is the hatred and outrage directed to them?
Or is it because they don't look unhealthy that it's ok? Is it just the mere appearance of fat people that is what angers people most and not the PC "oh you should be healthy" faux pity and concern? Because it seems to me that the attitude is if you're skinny and unhealthy you get a pass, but if you're fat and unhealthy then you're lazy, unmotivated, stupid, and careless.
So really it's just about not wanting to look at fat people and nothing else.
21"How else could one scientifically decide what is a healthy and non-healthy weight without disease and morbidity statistics?"
Oh and in regards to this, there is no statistic that says if you are X you will get Y. There is only if you are X you have MORE OF A CHANCE of getting Y.
Medicine is NOT a certainty.
22Those charts and stats are off by at least 5 pounds or more and are based on a small non athletic female frame. If you have a med. - large bone structure or pump iron you will never meet their "ideal." Muscle outweighs fat and when you first start to really work out with weights even though your body shifts and clothes fit better you see the numbers on the scale go up. Haus is correct when she types that there are those who are thin and meet the "ideal" who are extremely unhealthy and have a higher percentage of fat then someone viewed as overweight. Women have curves. We are meant to have curves. Don't diet them away.
Medicine is a science that is rooted in observation and trial and error. There is always an exception to rule. Genetics and luck play a big part.
23Well, sure it's not a certainty. I mean, if I get drunk out of my mind and go drive a car, it's not CERTIAN that I'll kill myself and others. It's still not a good idea. It sounds like a reasoning chain that would allow you to justify any kind of behavior.
Still. It's good to know BMI is "meaningless." Maybe I'll go try that all bacon breakfast you were talking about.
24Oh, and Sam - Fitsugar posted a book a while back called "The End of overeating." I used to believe that genetics and luck played a big part too, but it changed my mind on the matter. They did studies and found that thin people had defense mechanisms against overeating that played a much bigger role.
25I'm not using it to justify bad behavior at all. But I'm also not using it to justify discrimination and hatred either.
The best predictor of health in my opinion is bodyfat precentage. BMI is not accurate and weight even less so.
26genetics and luck play a big part in health - diet & weight are only part of that. a family can be genetically geared to something - red hair & freckles, breast cancer, dimples, high metabolism, high cholesterol. Some people do eat to compensate for what they feel is missing in their lives (thus comfort food) or as I have witnessed after a rape. The response - "they would not have gone after me if i was fat" Others in response turn anorexic - something they can control in their chaotic out of control world. emotions and eating go hand and hand if it didn't the chocolate manufacturers would be out of business.
27If drug abuse is considered a disease where a person can not control themselves, how come over/under eating is not considered the same way?
28Skb, that's the main premise of "The End of Overeating." There's no difference in an overeater's behavior and a drug adict's behavior. Denial, excuses, minimizing - it's all very similar. Our high-fat, high-salt, high-sugar diet is a supernatural stimulant that overrides your senses.
29i don't consider drug abuse a disease - you choose to do drugs you choose to eat bad food or too much food without exercise.
and you can get the same stimulant from certain fasts, detoxes and/or a raw food diet. high sugar diet only makes you hyper and then you crash.
it comes down to personal responsibility and choices. You choose to pick up a box of twinkies and eat not one, not two but the whole box; you choose to put a needle in your arm - no one is there forcing twinkies in your mouth or drugs into your veins. changing bad habits is hard and there are times you feel death would be a better option but humans are supposed to be evolved enough to do be able to make a change.
30"You stay "statistically-calculated" like it's an insult. How else could one scientifically decide what is a healthy and non-healthy weight without disease and morbidity statistics? "
31Heres a crazy concept, this wouldnt be an issue if government would stay out of healthcare!
Opening up charging people more by the government opens up the governments ability to charge what they will to whomever they choose.
You canot single out fat people, if you charge fat people more, than you have to charge skinny people more. You would have to charge muscle builders who are in better health than anyone on this board, more. You would have to charge anyone who eats processed food more, anyone who drives a car, anyone who eats a lot of bananas, lives in a brick house or by any source of granite more. Anyone who takes birth control pills, any woman who has ever had multiple abortions, more. I mean the list could go on an on about PERSONAL DECISIONS that increase your risk of disease. I am 100% for personal responsibility, but that DOES NOT come into play here. What are they not taking responsibility for. I don't see them saying I didnt make myself fat in this article. But it just seems SO EASY for yuou to stereotype these people, acting like YOU KNOW what their routine is or what they eat daily. The thing is, that once you are obese, it is insanely harder to lose the weight then you make it out to be. A healthy weight loss is 1-2 lbs per week. If you are already 200 lbs overweight, that would take you between 100 and 200 weeks to lose that weight. You don't see these skinny ass people in he gym daily and eating noting but vegetables and lean protein every day for 4 years, now do you? All I am saying is that you are quick to stereotype based upon your own metabolism. If you have a slow metabolism you can eat a 1800 calorie a day diet and GAIN weight. So please stop acting like you know all of the people that are not within their perfect statistical weight range, and that they eat double cheeseburgers all the time. Good LORD! Yes being overweight is unhealthy, but being gay increases you chance of aids, should we charge more to them, NO! You are advocating opening up a whole big can of worms.
Wow, dude. Did it just get REAL in here?
I think it's a phenomenal stretch to try to pin science you don't like on the liberals who love big government. But I sort of admire the single-mindedness of your line of thinking.
32interesting link:
33http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/6528812/Worlds-f...
and this one:
34http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/6517891/Juror...
I do think BMI is meaningless for some people, like athletes. Their weight's pretty high because they're all muscle, but they're extremely healthy at the same time. I think if you want to measure obesity you have to combine weight and height with body fat percentages.
35agreed genesis. you have to take more than one factor into consideration when considering overall health.
36"I think it's a phenomenal stretch to try to pin science you don't like on the liberals who love big government. But I sort of admire the single-mindedness of your line of thinking."
37I think it's safe to say that we can all agree that judging an individual by appearance whether you're name is Kate Moss or Rossie O'donnell is inappropriate, so if you have the civility stop it.
This matter is not for any of us to judge by the naked eye. This matter is for an individual and their primary treating physician to judge with the labs to back up the judgment. Where we all come in though is the a particular fact and the fact of the matter is obesity in America has become an epidemic that more often than not asserts serious long term health and quality of life issues upon the individual. Why does this concern society beyond the individual? Simple, as I mentioned above the fact of the matter is it is an epidemic and growing which costs us in general more money.
Our collective objective should certainly be to promote a healthy life style through show and tell but anyone who has nothing to offer other than derogatory put downs should keep their mouths shut because they help nothing and no one.
If you want to get healthy first thing you have to do is get up and move. The body was not designed to sit for hours upon hours a day it was designed to move and that is the first step. As far as eating you can eat just as much volume in food and much less in calories per day if you know what to eat, but you have to have the desire to want to know. Some mentioned that they see skinny people eating just as much food as obese people. I believe it and one of the reasons is of course changing how you eat and the other is metabolism. If you have a slow metabolism that's not an excuse to give up because you can condition your metabolism to be a fast one. But again that goes back to getting up and moving because if you don't move your body sees absolutely no reason to speed up anything.
38thumbsup to a personal attack, dang you are LOW!
39secondly I find it humorous that out of my entire post you took 1 line, talk about singlemindedness
And who said I didn't like te science??? There are some people who just cannot read in here today!
40I agreed that being overweight does increase your liklihood to get diseases, I AGREE WITH THE SCIENCE!!!! I was against your hurtful stereotyping of people that you DONT know~
41This is off a little bit from where the topic has gone, but I have to say, I see a huge difference between charging someone extra because he/she is a few pounds overweight and charging someone extra because he/she is obese. Being a few pounds overweight is something you should work on, but it's not nearly as risky to your health as being obese.
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