You know, she has very manly features, but I can't imagine how she feels. The athletic community is saying she has to undergo genetic testing in order to run? I just can't imagine.

Sadly, so many weird things are possible these days that it's not really outrageous to question - but if she is a girl, this has to be emotionally painful.

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"Expose thyself to what wretches feel," King Lear said, entering the mud and straw hovel of Poor Tom, "and show the heavens more just."

HOw awful for her. Do they think she was altered so that now she appears a woman but was actually born a man?

My daugher has a girl in her class who looks like a boy. They are good friends and spend time together outside of school. She gets teased in school and people who just meet her always refer to her as a boy. Some will even argue when my daugher tells them that she is a girl. She has a boys haircut and wears boys clothes. She even wears a tie for school pictures. Its kind of strange.

we know that sometimes people in the athletic community both atheletes and the people who train them and the countries they live in will do anything to win, we all remember china cheating in the olympics with underage gymnasts.

I found the comments from her family a bit cryptic.

How did she get this far without a medical record?

If she had a sex change, there would be a medical record. If she never did, there would be a record too.

I just don't get it.

i don't think they think she had a sex change, i think they think she was born with both or something. but that's just what i heard, so i have no idea. i feel bad for the poor girl.

Then shouldn't it be case closed? Don't they have to have some kind of medical record?

She may just have a hormone imbalance that causes her to have more manly features.

I think the idea is that she was born with both male and female organs, genes, etc. (That's what her detractors are alleging, at least.) It's actually possible that she's lived her whole life as a hermaphrodite and never even knew it, especially since she is from a remote area that probably doesn't have top notch medical care. It's extremely unlikely, but it's possible.

Even if she was born with both parts, if it was chosen at the time for her to live as a female then she's a female as far as I'm concerned.

I dunno... seems like this is a huge can of worms with no good outcome.

I understand what you're saying haus, and I would certainly treat her as female, but I also understand how that would give her an unfair advantage over the other competitors, seeing as she may not just have both sets of sex organs, but both sets of hormones, as well. I feel like her gender is female, but they're questioning her sex, not her gender. Does that even make sense?

Yeah that makes sense.

I don't know that I'd want her disqualified for that though, even if it is an unfair advantage, it's out of her control ya know?

Though it could be argued that its a form of performance enhancement I suppose, intentional or not.

If "she" has physical characteristics more in line with a male (slimmer hips which allow a person to sprint faster, the ability to develope greater arm and shoulder muscle mass) then I have a problem with allowing her to compete as a female. It may be beyond her control, but it is still an unfair advantage that could lead to further tampering.

Dave I'm sure you didn't mean anything by it, but even if there is some genetic maleness somewhere in her, it's appropriate to refer to people by the gendered pronoun they prefer, no quotes.

And this sounds like pretty much the most awful thing for a teenage girl to go through.

I didn't. Thanks for understanding.
You do bring up a good point though. What percentage of maleness can you have a still be considered female? If a man who has just a little female wants to be called female, can he/she still compete as a female?

I think TS was referring more to gender than sex, which is where this gets tricky. A person's gender doesn't always correlate with his or her sex, but it is appropriate to refer to that person using his or her gender. For example, someone who is born male but is living as a female should always be referred to as she, even if she hasn't had a formal sex change operation.

Although, with athletic competitions, I have to say that sex is what matters more than gender. I know it's not ideal for intersexed people, since they may not be able to compete at all, but I do think that having any amount of male hormones, chromosomes, etc. would give a competitor an unfair advantage. (I'm not saying Semenya does, just in theory.)

Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I'm fine with anyone of either sex choosing to live their life as either gender, but I don't know if that's something the world of sports has dealt with yet insofar as rules.

I feel so bad for this poor girl, despite whatever the truth may be.

There are, at least, two different parts of this argument. On the one hand, as has been cogently pointed out, there is a difference between sex and gender and perhaps that is the stumbling block for many. When many people see a person's outer physical characteristics in detail, they feel confident in stating that a person is either male or female. I think this is incorrect, but I can also understand why one would have difficulty with the concept.
However the greater issue in the case of athletic events is whether she has had any help from testosterone and this is true whichever the source, whether testicular or injected, as it is responsible for greater general strength. It will be an interesting case perhaps if this draws attention to the greater prevalence of hermaphroditism, specifically its modern prevalence.
While there was once a simple chromosome test for athletes (one which, when threatened historically, has caused the disappearance of more than a few Russian and Chinese Olympic contestants,) I doubt that the same tests would pass muster today. There have been great advances in genomics since that time.
For example several years ago, researchers first demonstrated that testosterone leaves an irreversible molecular signature in cells that may provide a far more sophisticated way to look at sex than just ascertaining the presence of the Y chromosome. Thus perhaps, as humiliating as this may be, through Ms. Semenya’s ordeal, we might publicly discover more about nature’s subtleties.

Just saw the follow up to this:

1) She was found to be a hermaphrodite.

2) Her testosterone levels were 3x that of a normal female.

Even though it's not her fault, I think she should give the medals back and compete with the men.

Wow. I feel sorry for her. I wonder if she knew.

Wow...that's interesting. And what a sad situation to have to endure.

I'm truly sorry for her. That's gotta be tough.

LOL! I'm sorry but this reminds me of the episode of Seinfeld with "man hands"

Hey genes & hormones are not always a perfect cocktail some people do show characteristics that are a bit unusual.