Raise my taxes, says millionaire Chuck Collins.
The scion of the Oscar Mayer family supports a House panel’s healthcare plan that would boost taxes for families earning more than $350,000 a year. He also advocates ending the Bush tax cuts for the rich right away, rather than when they expire at the start of 2011, and closing foreign tax havens to Americans.
Although the financial burden would be sizable, Mr. Collins is busy urging other wealthy Americans to sign a tax-me petition.
“The good news is there are still people out there willing to pay for the common good,” says Collins, whose nonprofit Wealth for the Common Good is collecting the names.
As of July 21, some 210 wealthy people had signed. Collins hopes to get more than 1,000 signatures before delivering it to President Obama and House leaders. The idealist wealthy are “not as small a minority as one might think,” says Eric Schoenberg, an investor and Columbia University Business School professor, who also signed the petition.
It is “reasonable and fair” for “the people who have done best out of the economic system in the last 20 years” to pay in extra taxes the bulk of the cost of healthcare reform, says Mr. Schoenberg. “Healthcare ought to be a basic right of citizenship.”
His research suggests the really rich are more willing than the modestly rich to share their wealth for the common good.
There are other indications of idealism among business people and the well-to-do:
•Responsible Wealth, a nonprofit group that includes several wealthy members, has been advocating for years that the estate tax be retained.
•A group of business owners and leaders called Business for Shared Prosperity welcomed the July 24 rise in the federal minimum wage from $6.55 to $7.25 an hour, although it costs their firms more money.
“It is an unsustainable and dangerous downward spiral to push American workers into poverty and expect taxpayers to pick up the bill for the consequences,” states Margot Dorfman, CEO of the U.S. Women’s Chamber of Commerce.
But wait! Don’t these taxes on the rich burden the very people who start the most firms and create the most jobs? Statistics suggest the burden is not overwhelming. Households with incomes over $250,000 have saved more than $700 billion from the Bush tax cuts of 2001 and 2003. The proposed graduated surtax under the House Ways and Means Committee’s healthcare plan would take back $544 billion over the next 10 years, providing about half the cost of the entire plan, calculates the Joint Economic Committee of Congress.
What that means is that even after digging deeper to help pay for expensive healthcare reform, the wealthy would still be paying less in taxes than during the Reagan administration – and far less than in President Eisenhower’s time.
In 1955, the top 400 US taxpayers paid 51 percent of their average income of $12.3 million (adjusted to 2006 dollars), according to Sam Pizzigati, a fellow at the Institute for Policy Studies in Washington. In 2006, the most recent data available, the top 400 paid 17.2 percent of their average income of $263 million in federal taxes.
That 17.2 percent rate is also “much lower” than tax rates for the rich in Britain, France, Germany, or Japan, he adds.
Nor, some economists note, did the US economy grow more slowly when taxes on the rich were far higher in the 1950s and 1960s – or grow more swiftly after the Bush tax cuts.
Hugo Boss
Bikkembergs
Rm By Roland Mouret
I just read this and found it interesting.
"Don’t these taxes on the rich burden the very people who start the most firms and create the most jobs?" I had always thought that yes, this was the case, but from this article, maybe not? Does anyone know more about this?
1IMO - If these people who have the mega bucks want to spend more in taxes, that should be their choice. I have a problem when it becomes mandatory, because a few people think it's ok.
2Hmmmm...have they found some secret way to profit from the "provisions" inside this bill? I am beginning to be a pessimist.
3Maybe they are being idealistic, but I'm always skeptical
I'm going to assume that he (rich influential business owner) will be saving more money although he's being taxed 'more' or he'll be profiting eventually because he doesn't have to keep paying for the expensive private insurance he may provide for his employees.
I'm pretty sure he'll probably support/encourage/even strongly push his employees to go on the government healthcare program.
When my hub for a month was let go from his insurance (due to lack of hours at work per month--per his union's guidelines), they presented him with the option for paying for his own insurance in full (not having the company's paying for any portion of it for that month), and boy oh boy, that was a number that shocked him (and all of us).
It seems that the proposed government plan that's being aggressively promoted right now will end up to be a less expensive alternative than the private insurance plans. By letting their employees go on the government-run healthcare plan, they (the rich Americans) can end up saving more money by cutting cost on paying their employees's private insurance.
That's just what I immediately assume though.
*Unconditional love is a beautiful thing, just be sure to give it AFTER your conditions have been met.*
4Not everyone views the need to 'profit' in the same way.
5210 people signed on, out of how many?
6***************
"I will marshal all the forces of darkness to hound you to an assisted suicide." - In the Loop
It says in the article that he hopes to get over a thousand signatures, if that's what you are referring to Sam. If you mean overall, I guess there must be some statistic out there that says how many people in the US fit this tax bracket.
7I believe every person who voted for Obama including Mr. Collins & all those silly overpaid movie stars & sports figures who promoted him should open their wallets & give give give more more more to Uncle Sam. That's what they wanted when they voted him in - big, wasteful expenditures by the government paid for by the taxpayers.
I believe taxing achievers is nothing more than penalising success & "the very people who start the most firms and create the most jobs"
"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have".
8Thomas Jefferson
Yes, all those "wealthy" that voted him in should open up their wallets and give him what they can. As long as they're paying more then that should let the rest of the "wealthy" who did not vote him take a break from paying the exorbitant taxes they pay already. And since this is for the common good, i'm assuming I can stop paying my taxes right? After all, these chumps are willing to pay my share.
~~~~~
I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine.
9Let me know if he gets above 500. I doubt he will.
10***************
"I will marshal all the forces of darkness to hound you to an assisted suicide." - In the Loop
If in fact he is serious why does he need a change in the tax code, why not just send what he deems fair to our treasury every year? I am afraid he is just trying to make headlines, and seem beneficent. Actions speak louder then words.
11"If in fact he is serious why does he need a change in the tax code, why not just send what he deems fair to our treasury every year?"
What kind of question is this?
12A very good question. He seems very interested in getting others to send their hard earned money to the government. That's just wrong. I have no problem with him using his money on whatever he wants, or however he wants, but I have a serious problem with him saying that everyone should follow his lead.
13Perhaps he just wants an opportunity to decide where his "donations" end up.
14Where did this coddle the wealthy attitude come from? Why do average workers think that the tax rules that are applied to the wealthy effects them? Guess what even if the taxes of the wealthy are raised they'll still be wealthy. Their discretionary income may decrease but they'll still maintain their wealth.
15Its annoying when someone acts like a big shot on other's backs. liliblu what do you have against someone who has earns a very good living? Do want to pay 60-70% of your earned income in taxes?
16***************
"I will marshal all the forces of darkness to hound you to an assisted suicide." - In the Loop
How is providing for the common good a donation?
I ask again, why do working class Americans think that the tax rules for the wealthy apply to them? They don't. So why are so many sympathetic to the plight of the wealthy? Do you believe the lie that when the wealthy pays more the economy suffers? Keep being suckered and you'll continue to hurt this country.
17"Do want to pay 60-70% of your earned income in taxes?"
I repeat, why do working class Americans think that the tax rules for the wealthy apply to them? They don't. High top marginal tax rates on the wealthy help to stabilize the economy. Look into articles by Larry Beinhart.
What I've found when I read sources other than a Murdoch or Moon owned papers/magazines is that when working class and middle class Americans have their taxes increased their wages also increase. Do a little digging and try to prove me wrong.
18oh so since you are below the poverty line its okay to take it from someone else. How very Robin Hood of you. Why do you feel someone else should foot the bill for others
Maybe they don't want it to go here:
19"Supporters of Mr. Obama’s plan to overhaul the system have outspent opponents, with $24 million worth of advertising, compared with $9 million from opponents. An additional $24 million has been broadly spent in support of overhauling the system without backing a specific plan."
***************
"I will marshal all the forces of darkness to hound you to an assisted suicide." - In the Loop
"I repeat, why do working class Americans think that the tax rules for the wealthy apply to them?"
Maybe because some of us "working class" are working towards the time when we make what the "wealthy" make per year, and it seems very demotivational to know that once we get there, we are going to be spending a good portion of it on taxes. How about the governemtn get out of my wallet, and allow me to spend it how I want, and allow me to give to the charities that I want.
20"oh so since you are below the poverty line its okay to take it from someone else. How very Robin Hood of you. Why do you feel someone else should foot the bill for others"
Sorry to burst your bubble but I'm no where near the poverty line. I'm surprised you assumed I was. Or maybe you were just behaving in your usual manner.
21"Maybe because some of us "working class" are working towards the time when we make what the "wealthy" make per year"
When I read statements like this I don't know if I should laugh or cry.
22So you are rich spoiled brat- better assumption?
With these taxes no one will strive to succeed. Why bother if over 60% or more will go back to the government. If those taxes go through we will all be paying more. They only start at the top and work their way down. You will not be exempt from higher taxes no matter what level you are at or think you are at.
23++++++++++++++++++++
"I will marshal all the forces of darkness to hound you to an assisted suicide." - In the Loop
"oh so since you are below the poverty line its okay to take it from someone else. How very Robin Hood of you. Why do you feel someone else should foot the bill for others"
I would also like to add that even if I lived below the poverty line, I would be within my rights to have an opinion on this issue. I would be following the example of the wealthy you so admire, looking out for my best interests. It's a shame that so many of you are more concerned with the wealthy than what's best for you and your country.
24"With these taxes no one will strive to succeed. Why bother if over 60% or more will go back to the government."
You can not be serious. The tax rate on the wealthy has been much higher than anything we've seen in the last 30 years and people still worked toward and acquired wealth.
"If those taxes go through we will all be paying more. They only start at the top and work their way down. You will not be exempt from higher taxes no matter what level you are at or think you are at."
Where is your proof. Not one of one has discreted my earlier statements. But you throw out talking points as if they are gospel.
25look back at when the tax code was enacted. It was enacted on the wealthy only. Didn't stay that way, did it?
26And do not forget to add state and city taxes into the equation.
***************
"I will marshal all the forces of darkness to hound you to an assisted suicide." - In the Loop
Are you against all taxes samantha999?
27The fact is folks like the Kennedy's have all their wealth and income EXCEPT from salaries earned in the U.S> in off shore trusts, and absolutely free of U.S. Taxes. The Fords, Mellons, Rockefellers, Heinz, etc. that have their wealth hidden away in tax free foundations, where they control the funds.
The figures are from The Federal Reserve Board, Survey of Consumer Finances. It is a chart of the “Distribution of Wealth, U.S. Households 2004”. I doubt the situation has materially improved for the bottom 90% in the last 3 years
Top 1% 34.3
Next 4% 24.6
Next 5% 12.3
Next 10% 13.4
4th 20% 11.3
3rd 10% 3.8
Bottom 40% 0.2
Notice that the top 1% controls more then the bottom 90% COMBINED.
The top 5% controls 58.9% of all wealth in the U.S.
The top 10% controls 71.20%
I dare say that the top 1% is not paying its fair share, and probably the next 4% could pay a tad more as well. My guess that if the top 1% pay any social security taxes at all, they maxed it out somewhere around noon January 2. I would further suggest that a case could be made to exclude the bottom 70% from any income taxes at all, and possibly even the bottom 80%.
28"So you are rich spoiled brat- better assumption?" What a sweetie you are!
29Kas I tried to ignore that comment. I was more offended by her earlier statement. She seems to think that poor should not have a voice. There are plenty of working Americans that live below the poverty line.
30The poor are allowed to have a voice, but why should the poor get a voice in the decision to take my money in the form of taxes?
31Should all citizens get a voice regardless of their economic status? Isn't that part of being in a democracy, Dave?
32"The poor are allowed to have a voice, but why should the poor get a voice in the decision to take my money in the form of taxes?"
This discussion is not about what you pay in taxes. But even if it was why would the working poor or the poor in general be shut out of any conversation. Many of you feel okay inserting your beliefs into people's private behavior and lives. Why should those who make less than you have no opinion?
33Kas - I didn't say they don't get or deserve a voice. I'm saying that it souldn't be their decision as to how much money a rich man should have to pay in taxes. Should the rich man have a voice in how much a poor man pays? No. Should the poor man have a voice in how much the rich man pays? No. If a rich man wants to pay extra, that is his choice. However, his telling everyone that all rich people should do it because he is shouldn't hold any more merit than any other person saying "rich people should pay more in taxes". I'd rather be able to give to the charities of my choice, and not the government's bureaucracy.
34I think the poor should have an opinion, but they should not be allowed to make a decision on how money they didn't earn is going to be used. Why should I work so hard to be wealthy when i know that half my money will be taken away? This is currently what is going through my bf's mind. He's thinking he must be an idiot for working so hard his whole life, only to pay more money to the government for people who think so poorly of him. By your attitude lilblu it seems you loathe those who have worked hard, yet YOU WANT THEIR MONEY. How about some respect? Where are those bowing down to the wealthy to be willing to put up with the greedy bs of those who say the money is for the "greater good"? Why aren't people thanking the wealthy for not fighting the looters of the country?
~~~~~
I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine.
35brookene please calm yourself. The amount of money a person accumulates does not always reflect how hard he/she works.
The wealthy already have to much say in who are elected officials are, what laws are passed, and what news we recieve. Do they have more of right to say how our country works because they money?
36They have more of a right because of the amount of money they PAY into it. How does the old saying go "You've got to Pay to Play"?
37Well lil, this is a touchy subject for me. Obviously, I wouldn't have such passion if I didn't I see this first hand. Someone making it out of the inner-city ghetto, eating from the dumpster to becoming a multi-millionaire. And now he's punished for working hard? And, no I won't calm down. Looters are people I have little to no tolerance for.
As for having a right in our elected officials...that's funny. Yes, i'm sure some do. But most of your wealthy are typical people who have scrimped and saved and lived in their means. You have a very distorted view of money and the people who have earned it.
~~~~~
I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine.
38I don't see paying to improve the overall quality of life in the country you choose to live in as a punishment.
"But most of your wealthy are typical people who have scrimped and saved and lived in their means. You have a very distorted view of money and the people who have earned it."
We must have different ideas of what wealthy means. Or you've really bought into the lies.
39That's an interesting observation lili. I just don't equate paying taxes to improving the overall quality. What is your idea of what is wealthy?
40"They have more of a right because of the amount of money they PAY into it."
That isn't very democratic. In our system, everybody is supposed to have equal say, regardless of how much they pay in taxes.
41How about we limit wealth to the top 3% of those that hold the wealth of this country?
42Fortunately, we don't live in a democracy. We live in a representative republic.
43Perceptions of wealth are varied.
There are those who inherit it--so they didn't actually earn it themselves and often they are viewed with a sense of entitlement via status...as those beneath them should listen and appreciate what they toss their way.
Others with $ and status worked hard for it, have a feeling of a need to give back and do so.
Entitlement is also found in the very poor...feeling they work very hard and deserve more...squirming under the conditions they live in and aspire to become more.
Those that are mid/upper income are in a war to hold what they have worked hard to achieve, feeling entitled to decide where their money goes.
While we all desire to be successful and feel monetarily stable...we share that...and often only that. Bitterness, although sometimes misplaced is a result all the way around.
44What a person misses when they go to bed. Is it okay for a any person to stick their hand in someone else's wallet or take money from someone else's bank account? That is what you are talking about.. Take from the rich so the poor can do what? The rich already pay for a lot of welfare services. The point you also miss is that when you take more from the rich so the government can decide where it goes, there are a lot less donations to the charities that actually do provide services for the poor. With the economic downturn charities are hurting and cutting services and staff. Raise the taxes on those who donate the most and it will continue to drop and thus crippling hundreds of charities and forcing them to shut down. To feel bad for a segment of society is one thing to punish another for it is something else. We will never agree on how to rectify the situation but going after a small group is not the answer. If they want to donate all that money to build free clinics and staff them you would have a better result then the government red tape laden system that already is corrupted.
And no lil i am not against all taxes, it is what keeps government in business but i am against overtaxing segments of society to make up for misuse of funds. It just starts with one group and works it way down to the others. Your taxes will go up if theirs does.
45***************
"I will marshal all the forces of darkness to hound you to an assisted suicide." - In the Loop
Dave: "They have more of a right because of the amount of money they PAY into it."
Kastarte: "That isn't very democratic."
Neither is the idea of eventually forcing the wealthy to "pay more for the common good". That's a Marxist idea, and no, I'm not just name-calling without reason.
"From each according to his ability, to each according to his need." -Karl Marx
Sounds great, but it rarely - in fact, never - works that way when put into practice. Chuck Collins should have the freedom to do with his money as he chooses, as should all the others on that list, without being laughed at. He should even have the freedom to try and convince his wealthy friends to do the same. He should not, however, be gathering a petition to send to Obama, presumably to convince him to create some sort of bill forcing others to do the same, whether they wish to or not.
46"But most of your wealthy are typical people who have scrimped and saved and lived in their means."
Hmm. Not sure where people are getting this "people are wealthy because they pulled themselves up by their bootstraps" idea, but for the most part, and in my experience, those people are in the vast minority. IMO, YMMV, all that good stuff.
47But em, is it not still their money?
And excuse my illiteracy, what is YMMV?
48"Is it okay for a any person to stick their hand in someone else's wallet or take money from someone else's bank account? That is what you are talking about.. "
No it's not what I'm talking about.
"The point you also miss is that when you take more from the rich so the government can decide where it goes, there are a lot less donations to the charities that actually do provide services for the poor."
I don't by this argument. The old one used to be cut taxes for the wealthy and prosperity will rain down on the rest of us. That didn't happen so now its, don't raise the taxes of the wealthy or they'll atop giving money to charity.
None of you have disproven any of the claims I made yesterday. You've just stuck to usual protect the wealthy arguments.
49"Hmm. Not sure where people are getting this "people are wealthy because they pulled themselves up by their bootstraps" idea,"
It's another of those myths that people won't let go of.
50Post A Comment
To post comments, please log in or register.